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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Correspondence Chess 2020 (Read 6144 times)
bragesjo
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #44 - 11/27/20 at 22:13:29
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About time ICCF has created a new available time contol option that some events uses called Triple Block system. One players that has almost 2500 in elo, thus much higher than me, has been thinking about my draw offer in a dead drawn endgame for more more than 80 days and he has about 20 moves left before he needs to take days from the bank where he can use 100 additional days. In normal time control one has to to move before a numbers of days even if one has time left or else one loses but in triple block  system there are no limts. I expected him to accept the draw offer after 100 additional moves thus he uses 200 days before taking a draw..
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #43 - 11/27/20 at 05:37:02
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Being an active ICCF player my experience is that time wasting within ICCF tournaments is in my opinion a real problem and ICCF don't seem interested in taking a hard line against this.

After 20 plus years of playing ICCF when I finish my current games I'm looking at other correspondence options. It is not my idea of enjoyment to be playing an opponent who playing down a mainline of the Petroff  takes 39 days to make ten moves before getting another 40 days to play the next 10 moves....and we are still playing a mainline!!
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #42 - 11/26/20 at 22:24:25
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For what it's worth, ICCF had an anti-stalling rule a few years ago when I was active (maybe it's still in effect), where a player using more than 20 days on a single move would have his subsequent reflection time count as double for the remaining moves.
  

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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #41 - 11/04/20 at 08:43:12
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Hi.

Thanks for posting that. On the face of it there is a quite impressive number of older games that up the total.

Have nice day.
/ CbT



  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #40 - 11/04/20 at 05:24:49
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Below is what is in Harding's UltraCorr 2020. Judging by how the numbers fluctuate year by year, it seems his effort to find games also fluctuated.

1500-1900     4018
1901-1950     6623
1951-1970    23387
1971-1980    45816
1981-1990   127843
1991-1995    98370
1996-2000   201418
2001-2003   255512
2004         78944
2005         75313
2006         71780
2007         79197
2008         80517
2009         82610
2010         88413
2011        101277
2012        104240
2013         97962
2014         86679
2015         95718
2016         98722
2017        104295
2018         85702
2019         54123
2020           284
non-date      2861

  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #39 - 11/02/20 at 09:46:48
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Hi.

In principle of course you would want as much information as possible. The problem for me is not exactly that the base gets to big or anything; the very marginal disadvantage in ease of usage from adding more games is not very concerning. It's more like statistics is the problem. First of all you may use it in decisionmaking, even if more commonly when I played at least, I based opening decisions more after what I found to be current best games in line. Secondly it is conceivable that I'd want to convey to others some statistics about some line and it does not feel credible to do that without a good idea of what is in the data.

In general I'd say a large chunk of games in the corr database are already not very relevant. Big engine improvements over time mainly (and hardware). To me there would appear to be a split in what you can do as a corr player with the invention of widely available AI engines. For this reason I'd rate fresh games to be volumes more valuable than ones before people started using AI engines.

If we go back to commercial corr databases. If not ICCF games or Lechenicher what other places are there where you could possibly find hundreds of thousands of qualitative games? (not post AI introduction qualitative more both players would be very likely to use decent engines qualitative) To me it seems more likely to be not very relevant ones that fill up these bases. If I am wrong though that would be very ok as then it would seem likely I'd learn about som new source of nice games.  Smiley

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #38 - 11/01/20 at 20:04:59
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That’s true.  I guess you don’t know whether the extra games are valuable or not.  But wouldn't you want as much info as possible?  I haven’t played corr chess in many years, but having the better library/database used to confer an advantage.  I suppose today it might be more important to have the better engine so would be curious to hear from others whether that’s so, whether having a more complete database is still important, or what it is in general that makes the difference between winning, drawing or losing.

  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #37 - 11/01/20 at 18:10:30
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Hi.

LeeRoth wrote on 11/01/20 at 15:37:04:
If you are looking for completeness, the next edition of Tim Harding’s UltraCorr is scheduled for early next year and already has more than 2 million games.  Brabo wrote about this database on his blog a while back:  http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2018/02/ultracorr-x.html

Sure. Thanks for the tip. I still don't get what the added value is though, since those extra games may be just about anything Huh

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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #36 - 11/01/20 at 15:37:04
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If you are looking for completeness, the next edition of Tim Harding’s UltraCorr is scheduled for early next year and already has more than 2 million games.  Brabo wrote about this database on his blog a while back:  http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2018/02/ultracorr-x.html
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #35 - 11/01/20 at 13:15:57
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Hi.

Updated my homemade corr database with latest ICCF games now and actually bothered to make a spreadsheet with game sources.

ICCF
2004                              205
2005                              6442
2006                              17 356
2007                              28 251
2008                              36 880
2009                              39 600
2010                              42 978
2011                              43 686
2012                              49 809
2013                              53 900
2014                              60 220
2015                              60 984
2016                              62 479
2017                              65 502
2018                              68 056
2019                              64 282

(2004-2019                  =            700 630)

202001                        4998
202002                        4501
202003                        5937
202004                        6070
202005                        5269
202006                        5843
202007                        6155
202008                        5062
202009                        5781
202010                        6025

(202001-202010            =            55 641)

Lechenicher
Lechenicher startto201512            240 902
Lechenicher 201601to 202006      103 604
Lechenicher 202007to 202009      4133

(Lechenicher                  =            348 639)

Other
IECG                              166 659
Chessfriend                        22 675
ASPCCto201912                  694
DESCto201912                  612

(Other                        =            190 640)

TOTAL ALL = 1 295 550


It's nice that you can get a decent corr database without buying it but... What I still really don't get is how Chessbase corr database 2020 (over 1.6 million games - if anyone knows the exact number please share) and Opening Master (1 924 684) have so many games. Any ideas?

I also have ICCF old archives and Lechenicher No engine games that I did not include but that's only 96 586 and 32 858 games respectively.

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 06/28/20 at 08:31:40:
Can I make a .cbh file .pgn so I can add more games? Something tells me no.

To come back to this. By now I've realised that in Chessbase 15 there is a function for this. Not sure how things were previously. Anyway you open the .cbh file in chessbase, select games you want, click "file" near top left and go to selection to text file then it says format and there are two places to check in PGN and if you do that the exported file becomes .pgn

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 09/26/20 at 15:39:09:
Hi.

Games progressing slowly atm.

To update on tournament progress. Games progressing less slowly now. Managed to lose the black game where I was clearly worse out of the opening. Won two on time from the same opponent. Think I've gotten nearer to more or less clearly winning positions in two white games. Also my experimental game (as black) where the thinking was I was either gonna lose like an idiot or draw very straightforwardly seems to have gone in the latter direction. Edit: In that game I had the position that happened after move 22 in my analysis that was done before move 4 btw Cool

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #34 - 09/28/20 at 21:37:51
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Hi again.

I realised there was an omission on my part
ICCF Old Archives Complete (non-server) download in Pgn format
96585 games

I did not put in the database I put together (also no ICCF chess 960). Should have thought about that. In other words any ICCF number given by me earlier would be without that. I guess the only correct thing to do is to alongside the files you manage make and manage a spreadsheet of the sources for the database. Will have to do that at some point.

Have a nice day.

P.S. on ICCF there is also World Championship Finals 1-30 updated 01/01/2020 but I assumed this was in their Server Complete until 31-12-2019 file, anyone know if this is correct?
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #33 - 09/28/20 at 21:15:23
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Hi.

Ok. I will have to check the individual sources then and add them all up. Quite possible I've missed something in the merging process (or do you have other sources?). Prolly do it when I update though, i.e. when ICCF releases new games.

It's from lechenichers site. They hosted (host?) tournaments for these two other organisations ASPCC and DESC apparently. Only 694+612 games though so not the largest thing. Hopefully they are also not duplicated in the Complete Archive of Games played on LSS. Dunno that actually.

Archive of ASPCC Tournaments played on LSS upto Dec 2019      694      0.1 MB      0.1 MB      87      78      
1/20/20
Archive of DESC Tournaments played on LSS upto Dec 2019      612      0.1 MB      0.1 MB      96      62      
1/21/20

Chessfriend is, I think, an old non-operational site that Lechenicher provides a games archive for.

Agreed that ICCF and Lechenicher are clearly most important.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #32 - 09/28/20 at 21:06:13
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My downloaded corr only database is 1,728,774 so not sure whats in the chessbase product or Chessfriendall
ASPCC&DESClechenichertournamentsto201912

But essentially the two problems is always de-duping and getting a program to handle a database that large.

Anyways, I would argue quality over quantity anyhow... LSS and ICCF are quality games for the most part... others not so much.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #31 - 09/28/20 at 20:59:08
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trw wrote on 09/28/20 at 19:35:37:
Love it. I was already considering going back to LSS over ICCF... that kinda seals the deal.

Cool. I also think it is a good initiative.

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 09/28/20 at 16:36:51:
Just out of curiosity. I've now merged the ICCF games and Lechenicher (+IECG et al. found on Lechenichers site) into a single database. Can't remember the exact number of games that the database ended up with (1.2-1.3 million asfair) and I am currently on a bus so can't check but it seems to me like there is a few hundred thousand games more in the chessbase corr database (over 1.6 million).

What could these games be? 1804 to ca. 1990 postal games? Or is chessbase just better at finding games generally.
Edit: I actually have 2018 corr base so can check how many non server games myself. Will do later.

Ok so I have some numbers now. Sadly don't have corr 2020.

Chessbase corr database 2018
1 431 813 games
of which:
Chessbase corr database 2018 years all games 1804-1990 (up to and including)
176747 games

Chessbase corr database 2020 (€190 Wink)
1 600 000 games minimum ("over 1.6million")

My downloaded database comprised of:
ICCFto202008
Lechenicherto202006
IECGall
Chessfriendall
ASPCC&DESClechenichertournamentsto201912

1 279 611

Imo it looks like most of the discrepancy between what you can download yourself and the comercial corr-base could indeed be non-server events. There is obviously also postal events 1991 and later which didn't make the cut here due to my arbitrary cut off year 1990. That is sort of heartening as old postal games are not the most relevant to have in modern day corr database (at least ones for competitive use only) and it probably means I don't have to buy a new corrbase Grin.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #30 - 09/28/20 at 19:35:37
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 09/28/20 at 15:55:52:
Hi.

I saw the Lechenicher message about an algorithm for unwarranted delay of game (20200923). Guess it is interesting information. Hope it works out well.

"Dear Chessfriends,

in the past there have been many complaints about games where one player started moving slowly esp in a lost position, partially using the 30-day-per-individual-move rule to its extreme. To my opinion, this is not a good attitude of sportsmanship.

I have therefore developed a measure against this. Depending on the position, the used time of reflection and the ratings of both players, the server can detect such games with a high probability. Actually, the delay of games is already part of the LSS Rules, but was not in effect so far.

Effective 1st October, 2020, such games will now be stopped by the server and the delaying player will be suspended for 3 weeks to start new tournaments. Further penalties might be introduced, if required.

The algorithm will not be revealed to avoid misuse and it might be due to change without notice.

Best wishes
Ortwin Pätzold"


An algorithm sounds like a very sharp way of trying to solve the problem compared to some more blunt but easier to understand regulation.

Have a nice day.



Love it. I was already considering going back to LSS over ICCF... that kinda seals the deal.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #29 - 09/28/20 at 16:36:51
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Hi again.

Just out of curiosity. I've now merged the ICCF games and Lechenicher (+IECG et al. found on Lechenichers site) into a single database. Can't remember the exact number of games that the database ended up with (1.2-1.3 million asfair) and I am currently on a bus so can't check but it seems to me like there is a few hundred thousand games more in the chessbase corr database (over 1.6 million).

What could these games be? 1804 to ca. 1990 postal games? Or is chessbase just better at finding games generally.
Edit: I actually have 2018 corr base so can check how many non server games myself. Will do later.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #28 - 09/28/20 at 15:55:52
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Hi.

I saw the Lechenicher message about an algorithm for unwarranted delay of game (20200923). Guess it is interesting information. Hope it works out well.

"Dear Chessfriends,

in the past there have been many complaints about games where one player started moving slowly esp in a lost position, partially using the 30-day-per-individual-move rule to its extreme. To my opinion, this is not a good attitude of sportsmanship.

I have therefore developed a measure against this. Depending on the position, the used time of reflection and the ratings of both players, the server can detect such games with a high probability. Actually, the delay of games is already part of the LSS Rules, but was not in effect so far.

Effective 1st October, 2020, such games will now be stopped by the server and the delaying player will be suspended for 3 weeks to start new tournaments. Further penalties might be introduced, if required.

The algorithm will not be revealed to avoid misuse and it might be due to change without notice.

Best wishes
Ortwin Pätzold"


An algorithm sounds like a very sharp way of trying to solve the problem compared to some more blunt but easier to understand regulation.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #27 - 09/28/20 at 05:26:07
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Perhaps a restriction on the number of games or tournaments that a player can have ongoing at any one time might help to lessen this kind of behavior.

  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #26 - 09/28/20 at 01:28:37
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 09/27/20 at 23:16:11:
I have heard of the dead man's defense but also doing it in totally equal positions somehow feels even worse to me.


We corr players call that particular fashion of DMD as DMD=.  DMD is out of control in correspondence right now. There's entire group of players who do nothing but DMD in dead drawn positions. They're easy to identify because they have very low win ratios but extremely high move counts. I had one player player turn down a draw from me down 2 pawns in an opposite color bishop endgame... I had to play until I could claim from six piece tablebase. I had another position which might have been even worse... the player forced me to play Rb1+ Rb2+ for 50 moves while he played Kh1 Kh2 Kg1 Kg2 Kf1 Kf2 Ke1 Ke2 Kd1 Kd2 Kc1 Kc2... true insanity. The ICCF officials refuse to admit the existence of DMD even though they wrote a rule for it. The rule is only usable if a player literally is sitting on mate in 1 and won't resign. They know who these players are for the most part and do nothing to stop this attitude. It is one thing for a player to do such things over the board where the behavior is limited to 7 hours... but to do it where every 10 moves adds 50 days? I have had games which were completely drawn in less than a month extended to 3 years with this kind of behavior. I actually think COVID-19 has made this behavior worse.

ICCF also has deflation issues...

And they have a wacky way of starting new tournaments, I would love to play more games but I can't get invites and there aren't open tournaments for players of my level. ICCF is almost killing itself between these three issues.

But hey! "good news everybody!" [in my best Futurama impersonation] They decided you no longer need to play GMs in order to get the GM title  Roll Eyes

In some ways, all these problems are connected because events are not rated off TER but randomly off the time period in which the game happens to end. You are encouraging players to manipulate their own rating to prevent as much deflation as they can.
« Last Edit: 09/28/20 at 02:56:39 by trw »  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #25 - 09/27/20 at 23:16:11
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Hi.

MW wrote on 09/26/20 at 18:54:58:
I've been playing ICCF for about 15 years now and play does seem to be getting a lot slower.....not sure whether players are taking on too many games or just spending too time with flash computer programs. But to take 30 days to play 9 moves in a mainline of the KID as one of my opponents has is ridiculous....a 1500 rated player at the local club could have  reeled these off in under a minute!

I can obviously only speculate but maybe he had to many games running and did not even want to think about the game in question.

MW wrote on 09/26/20 at 18:54:58:
Back in about 2006/2008 ICCF had a few rapid tournaments around 10 moves in 20 days and I only wish that they would bring these back....some of us would like to finish our games within 6 months of starting them not several years (some of us aren't getting any younger either)!!.

The ICCF fondness for 4 or more days per move is kinda baffling to basically an outsider like me. Guess it has to do with tradition. Lechenicher has some shorter tournaments I think if you are looking for that kind of thing.

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 09/26/20 at 15:39:09:
Are Lechenicher schachserver games included in the ICCF correspondence database? If not where can they be downloaded? I tried checking Lechenichers site via mobile but could not find
Jupp53 wrote on 09/26/20 at 19:12:47:
1. Don't know.
2. If you are a member there is a menue point, where you can get all games played so far. I do it via laptop. Don't know anything about smartphones.

Ok. So obviously I don't think ICCF has added Lechenicher games to their database that's why I asked. I did a few random samples and it did not appear like it.

Luckily very easy to find Lechenicher played games section on PC! Mobile not so much. Thanks for helping. It looks like I have been missing a lot of games in the corr database I've been using (oops Cheesy). There appears to be no less than:

344506 Lechenicher games
166659 IECG
022675 Chessfriend
000694 ASPCC
000612 DESC

bragesjo wrote on 09/27/20 at 11:46:56:
In my experience some players delays clearly lost positions for years, say +4 according to computers.  This can in many cases happening in unrated thematiical events too.

Sometimes higher rated players keeps playing on dead draw endgames for years even if the other player has better mininum pawn structure or minimum better minor piece.

I have heard of the dead man's defense but also doing it in totally equal positions somehow feels even worse to me.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #24 - 09/27/20 at 11:46:56
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MW wrote on 09/26/20 at 18:54:58:
Confused_by_Theory wrote on 09/26/20 at 15:39:09:
Games progressing slowly atm. Mildly losing interest in a lot of them.


I've been playing ICCF for about 15 years now and play does seem to be getting a lot slower.....not sure whether players are taking on too many games or just spending too time with flash computer programs. But to take 30 days to play 9 moves in a mainline of the KID as one of my opponents has is ridiculous....a 1500 rated player at the local club could have  reeled these off in under a minute!

Back in about 2006/2008 ICCF had a few rapid tournaments around 10 moves in 20 days and I only wish that they would bring these back....some of us would like to finish our games within 6 months of starting them not several years (some of us aren't getting any younger either)!!.


In my experience some players delays clearly lost positions for years, say +4 according to computers.  This can in many cases happening in unrated thematiical events too.

Sometimes higher rated players keeps playing on dead draw endgames for years even if the other player has better mininum pawn structure or minimum better minor piece.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #23 - 09/26/20 at 19:12:47
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 09/26/20 at 15:39:09:
Hi.

Are Lechenicher schachserver games included in the ICCF correspondence database? If not where can they be downloaded? I tried checking Lechenichers site via mobile but could not find Cry

1. Don't know.
2. If you are a member there is a menue point, where you can get all games played so far. I do it via laptop. Don't know anything about smartphones.
  

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Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #22 - 09/26/20 at 18:54:58
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 09/26/20 at 15:39:09:
Games progressing slowly atm. Mildly losing interest in a lot of them.


I've been playing ICCF for about 15 years now and play does seem to be getting a lot slower.....not sure whether players are taking on too many games or just spending too time with flash computer programs. But to take 30 days to play 9 moves in a mainline of the KID as one of my opponents has is ridiculous....a 1500 rated player at the local club could have  reeled these off in under a minute!

Back in about 2006/2008 ICCF had a few rapid tournaments around 10 moves in 20 days and I only wish that they would bring these back....some of us would like to finish our games within 6 months of starting them not several years (some of us aren't getting any younger either)!!.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #21 - 09/26/20 at 15:39:09
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Hi.

Games progressing slowly atm. Mildly losing interest in a lot of them. Two questions:

Are Lechenicher schachserver games included in the ICCF correspondence database? If not where can they be downloaded? I tried checking Lechenichers site via mobile but could not find Cry

Is it just me or does Leela seem very careful about forcing the play a lot of the time? It likes marginal improvements a lot I feel.
Edit: this sort of ups the difficulty as assessing five different quiet continuations of (according to Leela) roughly equal value is harder than following concrete lines of play and assessing those.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #20 - 09/14/20 at 04:28:04
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Hi.

I have to say, with a bit more time playing under the belt, that when it comes to engines it is kinda complicated. It's not exactly a question of use AI (Leela in my case) and brute force (Stockfish) in tandem a lot. Basically positions Leela might steer for are ones where Stockfish can be kinda weak, meaning hard to interpret and not necessarily right in evaluations.

Conversely as the game gets simpler and strategic ideas fewer, checking stuff with Stockfish seems very worthwile (endgames, as mentioned, definitely so). I got a bit miffed when Leela misevaluated a surprisingly simple looking position in one of my games. Felt like a hard lesson.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #19 - 08/08/20 at 23:30:14
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Hello.

Quick update. Games are progressing. I have like two black games where I worry. In one I didn't find a good reply to the opponents opening play (sort of highly critical line) and in the other I chose a totally new system where I am either totally fine or totally busted; one can hope the former of these. Conversely I have probably two white games where I should really be better.

Somewhat feel like playing more games. As mentioned earlier correspondence is kind of stimulating.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #18 - 07/02/20 at 22:48:24
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Hi.

bragesjo wrote on 06/30/20 at 15:58:41:
I play at ICCF. Time is differnt in different events but time is not only counted in days. One always gets at least 24 hours to make a move. If one is has not moved in more than something like 24 days time counts double. Rating system is also special.  After 12 rated games one gets a an unfixed elo and after 30 games a fixed elo that is base on performence on all 30 games. After 30 games rating is counted like fide elo except only 4 rating periods per year.

Events one can play before elo is based on fide elo or that national federation gives recommendation.  The higher fide elo the hieger rated opponents and start elo.

trw wrote on 06/30/20 at 19:41:18:
21 days fyi.

Thank you. I fully intend to use this 24h respite in the games where I am low on time Smiley.

A prelude towards moving to a remote greek island and only playing postal perhaps. The future will tell.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #17 - 06/30/20 at 19:41:18
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bragesjo wrote on 06/30/20 at 15:58:41:


21 days fyi.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #16 - 06/30/20 at 15:58:41
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I use a a special Chessbase table base on usb drive but I think it only covers 6 pieces.

I find b6 Winwaver a very interesting opening in corr chess since computers in general thinks that white is much better at first sight but after every accurate theory move entered the evalution drops and suddenly the position is called equal.

I play at ICCF. Time is differnt in different events but time is not only counted in days. One always gets at least 24 hours to make a move. If one is has not moved in more than something like 24 days time counts double. Rating system is also special.  After 12 rated games one gets a an unfixed elo and after 30 games a fixed elo that is base on performence on all 30 games. After 30 games rating is counted like fide elo except only 4 rating periods per year.

Events one can play before elo is based on fide elo or that national federation gives recommendation.  The higher fide elo the hieger rated opponents and start elo.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #15 - 06/29/20 at 13:22:52
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 06/29/20 at 12:32:43:
The code will have been used already I suppose

I think I'm right in saying that the code enables you to run the software on up to three devices at any time, so you should still be able to use it if your clubmate had only installed it on one or two (that's assuming you have the code, of course; it'll probably be in the CD case rather than on the CD itself).
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #14 - 06/29/20 at 12:49:08
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Hi.

Ok. So obviously time has passed since thread start and I got a bit into this correspondence thing again. My rate of play has not been fast at all. Games are sort of progressing in the opening phase with some entering the middlegame soon. For opening the strategy across the board as black was something like as long as Leela doesn't see problems go for the line you think look most interesting. This could fail as a strategy on the whole but will be interesting and I think it's best way to learn and gain relevant information for otb use later. As white against 1.e4 e5 I tried to find some recent white wins (not always easy) played by correspondence masters and generally just went for the same line.

New question btw:
Does anyone know how ICCF calculates time on their webserver? I heard something about only counting full days.

Regards.
/CbT
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #13 - 06/29/20 at 12:32:43
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Hi.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/28/20 at 22:08:07:
Sorry to hear about your club mate. It was a nice gesture by the family to drop off some of the disks at the club. Usually the family has no idea of the value of the chess collection, or what to do with it.

We have a guy who reads the local paper including obituaries every single day so it is rare that chessplayers here dies without us knowing about it. If we know the person who died was connected to our club and would have had some kind of collection of chess items (usually old books...of which there may be many) we typically contact the estate. Families are usually happy if we can help clear the chess stuff from the things left behind.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/28/20 at 22:08:07:
Megabase is just data, you don't need a code, unless maybe you want to update it.

Ye. Update will be hard I think.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/28/20 at 22:08:07:
Really old ChessBase software just needs the disk. They came with a registration code but it was only for support. That's the way my CB-8 works. At some point ChessBase the company changed that so you absolutely needed the code and without online registration it just doesn't work. I'm not sure exactly when they made the change, but I believe CB-9 doesn't need the code and CB-10 does need the code. Maybe someone else knows for sure.

Ok. Interesting. This copy is far after that anyway. The code will have been used already I suppose Sad

Cheers.
/CbT
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #12 - 06/28/20 at 22:08:07
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Sorry to hear about your club mate. It was a nice gesture by the family to drop off some of the disks at the club. Usually the family has no idea of the value of the chess collection, or what to do with it.

Megabase is just data, you don't need a code, unless maybe you want to update it.

Really old ChessBase software just needs the disk. They came with a registration code but it was only for support. That's the way my CB-8 works. At some point ChessBase the company changed that so you absolutely needed the code and without online registration it just doesn't work. I'm not sure exactly when they made the change, but I believe CB-9 doesn't need the code and CB-10 does need the code. Maybe someone else knows for sure.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #11 - 06/28/20 at 20:36:21
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Hi.

I was thinking converting from .cbh to .pgn. The other way around I got how to do, but thanks anyway. Smiley

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/28/20 at 19:46:25:
If in fact you are using the full version of ChessBase, the way to convert a .cbh database to .pgn is to create a new empty .pgn database, then drag-and-drop from the .cbh database into the .pgn database.

Got full version of Chessbase so yea. This is good advice for me and it works. Thanks.

Gl with the spare Chessbase copy.
Somewhat ot. Is there any value in old copies of e.g. Chessbase or Megabase etc? Or only with the code included (i.e. unused ones) like your Chessbase copy? We had a person who died of cancer and with that some were left at the club a couple of years ago.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #10 - 06/28/20 at 19:46:25
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 06/28/20 at 08:31:40:
Can I make a .cbh file .pgn so I can add more games?

If you are using the full version of ChessBase, then you could already add games to a .cbh file. So I deduce that you are using the free ChessBase Reader. In which case you can't use it to convert to .pgn. You would need to break down and purchase ChessBase, or find a different software for this conversion.
  • Chess Assistant and/or Aquarium can open .cbh read-only, and convert to native or .pgn format. Neither is free.
  • SCID can open and convert .cbh, and it's free.
  • There is an Android app that can do it. Funny, it would be less expensive to purchase an Android tablet than to pay list price for full ChessBase.
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.chess.cb&hl=en_US
  • I have a gently used disk for CB-14 that I can offer for cheap, although you would also have to pay shipping from the USA. PM me if interested. I uninstalled it, and have an email from ChessBase support assuring me that it's fine for someone else to register it. I also have (possibly reluctant) approval from GMTonyKosten to offer it for sale here.

If in fact you are using the full version of ChessBase, the way to convert a .cbh database to .pgn is to create a new empty .pgn database, then drag-and-drop from the .cbh database into the .pgn database.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #9 - 06/28/20 at 16:56:27
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 06/28/20 at 08:31:40:
Hi.

New question.

Can I make a .cbh file .pgn so I can add more games? Something tells me no.

Regards Cbt



Yes, when I am gathering games each month. I gather them in pgn. Combine them in pgn. Then use chessbase to switch it to cbh as it works faster with the larger cbh files. Just right click on the pgn file and convert it to cbh format should be the top option.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #8 - 06/28/20 at 08:31:40
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Hi.

New question.

Can I make a .cbh file .pgn so I can add more games? Something tells me no.

Regards Cbt
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #7 - 05/29/20 at 00:09:55
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You generate the tablebases and you point Stockfish to the folder from its options. You can tell it's working if SF starts showing TB evals. Special numbers that show distance to mate etc.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #6 - 05/26/20 at 10:48:23
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Hi.

After I found the ICCF games I'm not so worried about the opening phase. My opponents have already shown willingness to play mostly mainline stuff (unlike me Smiley), so there are going to be hundreds of relevant games from the ICCF stuff alone. If it is enough that would be great but idk. In correspondence knowing predecessors is sometimes big so missing some would be sorrowful.

VGA wrote on 05/25/20 at 22:39:11:
Stockfish (and its derivatives I suppose) can use Syzygy tablebases. The size of 7-man tablebases is many terrabytes but the 6-man databases are much smaller and practical to generate and use. Something like 70gb I think.

Ok. Is it easy to connect Stockfish to a 6-piece tb? I imagine there would be technologically minded people who have tried to find solutions for getting the 7-piece one but it's not so crucial for me I think. Don't play many games and in the endgame you can often analyse out the positions manually.

MW wrote on 05/26/20 at 00:42:07:
Good luck, ICCF has been great at keeping me mentally active during lockdown.

Thanks!

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #5 - 05/26/20 at 10:18:48
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Yes that is the gist of the discussion, after all Magnus has been quoted as saying Leela's moves all make sense. Stock is very strong in latter stages. I think an engine that tries to meet VGA's idea is corchess, which is based on using Stock for a bit longer analysis idea. It's easily found by googling Ivan Ivec, and yes updating Stock is a good thing.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #4 - 05/26/20 at 00:42:07
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 05/24/20 at 15:49:55:
And of course. Are there known pitfalls and the like that amateurs fall into? My opponents are also new. That being said pretty much everybody will be using strong computer programs. I sort of predict they might make imprecisions but having a super strong computer helping obviously eliminates the risk of totally crazy blunders.


I play ICCF with a rating of 2380....not being much of an IT wiz I simply use an off the shelf version of Komodo 12 on an ordinary laptop...

Having previously been an OTB player I still use opening books currently  The Sicilian Taimanov by Pavlidis and Demuth's Modernized Reti (to name a couple) and the only database source I bother with is ChessBase's I don't even check the ICCF base as I don't know how to download it (all be it I do manually go through some of each opponents recent games to get a feel for what they play before I start each ICCF tournament).

I tend to try and play closed positions as Komodo is inclined to shuffle pieces around in the KID for example. This suits me as it allows me to make the computer look at lines that seem natural to me rather than me just blindly following the computers best move....   

At least this way if I loose or win the odd game I've had some input into it rather than it just being an IT solution which strikes me as pointless...

Good luck, ICCF has been great at keeping me mentally active during lockdown.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #3 - 05/25/20 at 22:39:11
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Stockfish (and its derivatives I suppose) can use Syzygy tablebases. The size of 7-man tablebases is many terrabytes but the 6-man databases are much smaller and practical to generate and use. Something like 70gb I think.

When it comes to Stockfish, every now and then I download fresh builds from

https://abrok.eu/stockfish/

So that I am not stuck with the last stable Stockfish. If there is a Stockfish derivative tuned for long analysis you should probably use that, though. And I really hope you can configure the engine properly for your hardware and purpose.

About "engine-strength" openings, I am not sure but take a look at this freeware opening book

https://sites.google.com/site/computerschess/perfect2019books

Disclaimer: I have never used it myself and I have never played an engine-allowed correspondence game, it just *seems* useful for your purposes.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #2 - 05/25/20 at 12:57:40
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Hi.

Pawnpusher wrote on 05/25/20 at 11:40:43:
One idea the guys over at Talkchess discuss is using Leela or Alllie until there are about 16 pieces left, then switching to Stockfish or Brainfish. They seem to think it is the best solution for now.

Ok, thanks I will try to read up on that discussion. The way I take it this means Stockfish might just be overall better in the endgame. Leela gives more interesting suggestions earlier though, so it seems clear you would want to use it previously in the game.

Somehow I still feel like using a combination of say Stockfish and Leela should be best for the early- and middlegame. Perhaps it's not worth it in relation to the extra work you would be putting in though. I think I'll do some analysis project and try to get more experience.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess 2020
Reply #1 - 05/25/20 at 11:40:43
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One idea the guys over at Talkchess discuss is using Leela or Alllie until there are about 16 pieces left, then switching to Stockfish or Brainfish. They seem to think it is the best solution for now.
  
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Correspondence Chess 2020
05/24/20 at 15:49:55
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Hey.

With less stuff to do because of Corona I am right now playing in my first correspondence chess tournament in I think 6 years. Beforehand I noticed there is a split in the corr community. Most sites don't allow computer help (with many having anti cheating software). The tournament I am playing is with ICCF rules (computers allowed) however, so please keep that in mind. Afaik only ICCF, Lechenicher and FICGS practice this form of corr.

Basically I wanna win the tournament and be satisfied with my decisions and level of play so I thought I'd ask if anyone knows anything about modern day (2020) correspondence chess and if they'd be willing to share some insights?

Right now I am for example wondering what databeses to use? I do have access to ICCF games archive. That's a few decent corr games. Is there any big point to getting something else?

I also sort of wonder about chess engines. I have got Leela but an interesting thing to my mind is that it often gives multiple more lines indicated as playable compared to Stockfish (which I use most). Do I just have to bite the bullet and treat most Leela suggested lines as playable and analyse no matter how weird they look? How then do you sort of get forward in the analysis without extraordinary effort?

And of course. Are there known pitfalls and the like that amateurs fall into? My opponents are also new. That being said pretty much everybody will be using strong computer programs. I sort of predict they might make imprecisions but having a super strong computer helping obviously eliminates the risk of totally crazy blunders.

Have a nice day.
  
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