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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Lc0 v0.25 (Read 3802 times)
Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #23 - 02/27/21 at 22:21:44
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Hi.

Checked now and could not find anything about Lco Elo strength vs other engines on the LCO site sadly. Seemed like tests were vs other Lco versions (not sure though). As noted earlier there is nothing on CCRL list. I thus basically think TCEC 20 is the best you have to go on.

I found this breakdown:
https://tcecbayeselo.chessdom.org/2021/01/15/tcec-season-20-divp-game-224-stoofv...

Giving some kind of rating estimation for various Lco (26.3 in particular) and some other versions. I guess the Stockfish was Stockfish 12 and not the seemingly improved 13 and Leela not Leela 27 (don't know what's different here), but it's nice to see Leela equal with Stockfish in the group stage. As far as I understand in the final head to head matches Stockfish slowly got the upper hand as they started playing more and more imbalanced starting positions. Presumably there was something that gave Stockfish an edge.

Have a nice day.
  
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Pawnpusher
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #22 - 02/25/21 at 11:58:33
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I like nibbler a lot also, very good to see multiple options with wdl for each.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #21 - 02/24/21 at 08:59:42
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Nibbler is brilliant, yes. Being able to immediately see when you've reached a position where 'anything' goes vs a critical one is very useful.

Often quite instructive about just how non forcing certain positions are as well!
  
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Pantu
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #20 - 02/24/21 at 08:24:56
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There is a wiki page with links to particular networks and recommendations based on size:

https://lczero.org/dev/wiki/best-nets-for-lc0/

so e.g. you can collect the ones that have competed or won various competitions, if you have the hardware.

(and an older one: https://lczero.org/play/bestnets/)

By the way, I've been using the nibbler interface (on linux, but it runs everywhere) and been happy with it:

https://github.com/fohristiwhirl/nibbler

it's quite interesting to get all the moves evaluated at once...
  
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brabo
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #19 - 02/24/21 at 06:05:39
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 02/23/21 at 22:55:15:
Hi.

Interesting blogposts. I will get Leela 27.0. Think I have some older one.

Don't exactly get why it would be necessary to check every iteration of some program if there is a really big amount of versions. Ideally the developers, using best ability, would settle on some version to submit for testing. Then redo at regular intervals. It would also be up to them if they want to take test hardware into account.

Otherwise you only get own testing or unofficial testing from tech competent users. That may suffice for development purposes but not for making Leela broadly popular.

Have a nice day.

The strength of Leela is coming from the network and not the engine. Well that is not entirely true of course as you need an engine to grab the knowledge from the network and interprete it to a move. The engine has been optimized a few times to do quicker searches in the network but in the end we can say that the engine adds very little of real knowledge.

On the site https://training.lczero.org/networks/1 you can see each hour a new network is created. Each network is different and has a different strength. The ordo elo is an internal benchmark but this can deviate a lot from a benchmark with other engines which tests have shown before. So in theory to know which Leela is the best you need to test each of the networks combined with each of the engine versions. That are close to a million of combinations.

Finally I think most of us are not going to develop Leela but like to use it as a tool for analysis. Therefore we want to know which version of Leela is the best on our own computers and not some test hardware which can be something much better or weaker.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #18 - 02/23/21 at 22:55:15
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Hi.

Interesting blogposts. I will get Leela 27.0. Think I have some older one.

Don't exactly get why it would be necessary to check every iteration of some program if there is a really big amount of versions. Ideally the developers, using best ability, would settle on some version to submit for testing. Then redo at regular intervals. It would also be up to them if they want to take test hardware into account.

Otherwise you only get own testing or unofficial testing from tech competent users. That may suffice for development purposes but not for making Leela broadly popular.

Have a nice day.
  
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brabo
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #17 - 02/23/21 at 20:43:36
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Every day dozens of Leelas are created so which one do you want to compare with? Besides results are very depending on the hardware you are using.

Also nobody knows which Leela is exactly the strongest one as it is impossible to seriously test all those new versions of Leela. CCRL can't do either so lags sometimes months behind.

Exactly because of this I started to test myself the engines as I explained in 2 articles on my blog: http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2019/09/testing-chess-engines.html and http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2020/11/testing-chess-engines-part-2.html That gives me much more useful feedback about which engine to use for my own analysis than any published ratinglist.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #16 - 02/23/21 at 01:59:21
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Hi.

How strong is Leela chess in terms of elo right now? For some reason it is not on CCRL rating list (or at most what looks like some older version).

I mainly ask because knowing how good it is relative to Stockfish would be useful. The fish beat it in TCECs 18, 19 and 20 all played during 2020 and now an even better Stockfish (version 13) is available. So another relevant question would be if Stockfish has pulled ahead in a meaningful way?

Have a nice day.
  
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fling
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #15 - 07/03/20 at 18:15:12
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Pawnpusher wrote on 07/02/20 at 11:02:22:
Maybe LcO 26.0 will work?


RC1 works for me, but not with my config-file. But no problem, I'll manage. It seems as if RC1 is the same as the final release of v0.26. I'll try it soon, thanks!
  
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fling
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #14 - 07/03/20 at 18:14:03
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lg wrote on 07/01/20 at 15:00:37:
Hi

Any suggestion son how to download Lc0 0.24?

Thank you


https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/releases/tag/v0.24.0
  
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fling
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #13 - 07/03/20 at 18:13:05
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 07/01/20 at 17:36:01:
fling wrote on 07/01/20 at 14:49:07:
EDIT: I can and will try to see if it is the problem by removing it. But I don't think CB15 uses the config-file when creating the UCI.

Most likely the name for the config is compiled into the executable. You didn't say if the engine error was fatal or not.

You can try renaming the config, then the engine will either raise an error that it can't find it, or possibly just use default values that you may or may not like.

Once you can get the engine to run (with or without errors), issue the "uci" command. The engine is supposed to report all the parameters that it can accept, and their defaults. Anything not in the list you should remove from the config, or comment them out.


The engine works fine when I remove the config-file. There are several parameters that just gave an error message, but some seem to make the engine get stuck. I might try to debug by commenting out all lines and adding them back. Or just create a totally new file with the basics (like multiplexing and number or threads etc).

Thanks for your help!
  
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Pawnpusher
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #12 - 07/02/20 at 11:02:22
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Maybe LcO 26.0 will work?
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #11 - 07/01/20 at 17:36:01
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fling wrote on 07/01/20 at 14:49:07:
EDIT: I can and will try to see if it is the problem by removing it. But I don't think CB15 uses the config-file when creating the UCI.

Most likely the name for the config is compiled into the executable. You didn't say if the engine error was fatal or not.

You can try renaming the config, then the engine will either raise an error that it can't find it, or possibly just use default values that you may or may not like.

Once you can get the engine to run (with or without errors), issue the "uci" command. The engine is supposed to report all the parameters that it can accept, and their defaults. Anything not in the list you should remove from the config, or comment them out.
  
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lg
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #10 - 07/01/20 at 15:00:37
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Hi

Any suggestion son how to download Lc0 0.24?

Thank you
  
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fling
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Re: Lc0 v0.25
Reply #9 - 07/01/20 at 14:57:26
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The problem is my config-file. It contains some values that were recognized in v0.24, but not in v0.25 or v0.26.
  
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