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Normal Topic The Rosen variation...but one move early. (Read 866 times)
trw
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Re: The Rosen variation...but one move early.
Reply #9 - 08/17/20 at 15:56:32
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HagenWatch1 wrote on 08/14/20 at 13:42:38:
Granted this could only work on blitz or bullet but I thought after seeing GM Eric Rosen’s idea posted on Lichess I was wondering if people had seen or heard of this idea.


Not to nitpick but it is IM not GM
  
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tony37
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Re: The Rosen variation...but one move early.
Reply #8 - 08/16/20 at 12:05:11
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Since we apparently have to assume this is bullet, then 7.d4 may actually be a good move because black likely has premoved either 7...O-O or 7...d6, and 8.dxe5 is fine against both. 8.d5 is an option too.
Suppose black didn't actually look at what white played as 8th move, play may go 7.d4 d6 8.dxe5 O-O 9.exf6

All this has of course nothing to do with opening theory.
  
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tony37
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Re: The Rosen variation...but one move early.
Reply #7 - 08/15/20 at 10:37:42
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HagenWatch1 wrote on 08/14/20 at 23:33:27:
You didn’t complete the rest of the line - 10. Nxf7?! Kxf7 11. e5 Bg4 12. exf6 Bxd1 13. Rxe7+ Kf8 14. fxg7+ Kxe7 15. Bg5+ Kf7 16. Bxd8 and Black loses the Queen.

but what if black simply keeps taking everything: 11...dxe5 (which is easier to calculate than 11...Bg4 because then you at least have to see what happens after 12.f3 and after 12.exf6, and maybe also 12.Qd2; while after 11...dxe5 you just have to see if 12.d6 works, and why seek complications when you're two pieces up?)
13...Kxf6 in your line is very natural too as white has no queen anymore to chase the king there
« Last Edit: 08/15/20 at 11:41:39 by tony37 »  
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HagenWatch1
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Re: The Rosen variation...but one move early.
Reply #6 - 08/15/20 at 08:03:34
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MNb wrote on 08/15/20 at 05:35:42:
You didn't complete the rest of the game either.

HagenWatch1 wrote on 08/14/20 at 23:33:27:
.... and Black loses the Queen.

16... Re8 or 16...Rhxd8 and White loses the game.


If this is bullet White might be tempted to flag.
  
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Re: The Rosen variation...but one move early.
Reply #5 - 08/15/20 at 05:35:42
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You didn't complete the rest of the game either.

HagenWatch1 wrote on 08/14/20 at 23:33:27:
.... and Black loses the Queen.

16... Re8 or 16...Rhxd8 and White loses the game.
  

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HagenWatch1
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Re: The Rosen variation...but one move early.
Reply #4 - 08/14/20 at 23:33:27
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You didn’t complete the rest of the line - 10. Nxf7?! Kxf7 11. e5 Bg4 12. exf6 Bxd1 13. Rxe7+ Kf8 14. fxg7+ Kxe7 15. Bg5+ Kf7 16. Bxd8 and Black loses the Queen.
  
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tony37
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Re: The Rosen variation...but one move early.
Reply #3 - 08/14/20 at 21:35:28
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I don't see what the threat is supposed to be.
White doesn't have any initiative after 7.d4?? bxa4 8.d5 Na5 9.Nxe5 d6
One thing black could do wrong is 9.Bd2 c5?, now there's 10.d6 Bxd6 11.Bxa5 and it's equal instead of black winning.
Of course, in bullet you may confuse your opponent but you can try about anything in bullet to do that.

What do you mean with the Rosen variation?

edit: Black can lose if after 11.Bxa5 in the above line he continues 11...Qxa5?? instead of 11...Bc7 because after 12.Qxd6 white prevents castling and will take the e5 pawn.
Looks like the only trap to play for here.
And if black would play 10...Bf8 white has good compensation. But 9...Nc4 would spoil everything
  
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HagenWatch1
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Re: The Rosen variation...but one move early.
Reply #2 - 08/14/20 at 19:24:05
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In your line Black isn’t forced to give up the e5 square. That’s because the d4 pawn is already gone. There is no d pawn to force the knight on c6 to leave. That’s the main difference. So a push with e5 by White doesn’t dislodge it and Black can counter with Ng4. All this while Black can still take the bishop on a4. So I think White has less compensation for the pawn here than in an accelerated Rosen attack with 7.d4.
  
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Re: The Rosen variation...but one move early.
Reply #1 - 08/14/20 at 18:03:51
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In blitz I would be inclined to transpose to the Center Attack with 7...exd4. (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.O-O Be7 7. Re1 b5). In a slow game I would probably analyze a bit before doing the same thing. Then see what I should have done after the game.
  
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HagenWatch1
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The Rosen variation...but one move early.
08/14/20 at 13:42:38
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Here is the line with the Rosen variation but one move early.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6
5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. d4?!

The point of the move is to ignore the attack on the bishop on a4 and simply go ahead and attack anyway. Because if Black takes on a4 with 7...bxa4 the meaning becomes clear when White replies with 8. d5?! forcing the knight on c6 to abandon the pawn on e5.

Granted this could only work on blitz or bullet but I thought after seeing GM Eric Rosen’s idea posted on Lichess I was wondering if people had seen or heard of this idea.
  
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