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Normal Topic 3.Nf3 b6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.Bg5 line in QID (Read 245 times)
mn
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Re: 3.Nf3 b6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.Bg5 line in QID
Reply #3 - 08/27/20 at 16:37:11
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Well yeah, I assumed that since you were playing 4 Nc3 Bb4, it meant that the Petrosian with 4...Ba6 is in your repertoire. If you play ...Bb7 against the Petrosian, then yeah, I would recommend 4 Nc3 Bb7 as well.
  
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BobbyDigital80
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Re: 3.Nf3 b6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.Bg5 line in QID
Reply #2 - 08/27/20 at 09:36:31
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mn wrote on 08/27/20 at 06:06:01:
Wow, it's been a while since I've thought about this line. Here's my understanding, as best as I remember.

1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 b6 and here:

A) 4 Nc3 Bb4 5 Bg5, and now there's nothing really wrong with 5...Bb7, except that it allows White the extra option of 6 Nd2!?, which is maybe annoying, maybe not, but it seems like it can be straight up avoided by altering the move order. Instead, after 5...h6 6 Bh4 g5 7 Bg3, I think Black should really be going 7...Ne4, because now 7...Bb4 8 Nd2 is I guess a good version for White of the Nd2 thingy, because Black is already commited to ...g5, which I guess he wouldn't normally do against Nf3-d2.

B) 4 Bg5 is another story. Well, personally I think I would play 4...Bb7 5 Nc3 h6 6 Bh4 Be7, which should equalize comfortably. I think this is what Greet recommended in his 32315F00 book (which is notable because he did also recommend 4 Nc3 Bb4). You can also play 5...Bb4 of course, transposing to 5...Bb7 and decide whether you find 6 Nd2!? annoying. There's also stuff like 5...h6 6 Bh4 Nh5!? available.


If 4.Bg5 Bb7 5.Nc3 h6 6.Bh4 Be7 equalizes, can’t Black play that line against 4.Nc3? He could play 4...Bb7 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 Be7. I guess the only concern is what Black plays against 4.a3, the Petrosian variation. If he plays 4...Ba6 then he can’t play the 4.Nc3 Bb7 line since 5.a3 would take him out of his preferred line.
  
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mn
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Re: 3.Nf3 b6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.Bg5 line in QID
Reply #1 - 08/27/20 at 06:06:01
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Wow, it's been a while since I've thought about this line. Here's my understanding, as best as I remember.

1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 b6 and here:

A) 4 Nc3 Bb4 5 Bg5, and now there's nothing really wrong with 5...Bb7, except that it allows White the extra option of 6 Nd2!?, which is maybe annoying, maybe not, but it seems like it can be straight up avoided by altering the move order. Instead, after 5...h6 6 Bh4 g5 7 Bg3, I think Black should really be going 7...Ne4, because now 7...Bb4 8 Nd2 is I guess a good version for White of the Nd2 thingy, because Black is already commited to ...g5, which I guess he wouldn't normally do against Nf3-d2.

B) 4 Bg5 is another story. Well, personally I think I would play 4...Bb7 5 Nc3 h6 6 Bh4 Be7, which should equalize comfortably. I think this is what Greet recommended in his QID book (which is notable because he did also recommend 4 Nc3 Bb4). You can also play 5...Bb4 of course, transposing to 5...Bb7 and decide whether you find 6 Nd2!? annoying. There's also stuff like 5...h6 6 Bh4 Nh5!? available.
  
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BobbyDigital80
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3.Nf3 b6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.Bg5 line in QID
08/27/20 at 04:42:41
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Against this line, 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 g5 7.Bg3, Black can player either 7...Ne4 or 7...Bb7 (or 5...Bb7 first). Usually 7...Ne4 is recommended, presumably to force White to play 8.Qc2. Otherwise, White could play 8.e3 or some other useful move. But is it really a problem for Black if he inserts Bb7 before playing this h6/g5/Ne4 idea? He plays ...Bb7 later on anyway, so is there some concrete variation that makes the early Bb7 less desirable?

Also, if White plays 4.Bg5 instead of 4.Nc3, then what should Black play here? If he plays 4...Bb7 5.Nc3 Bb4, then he's been "tricked" into this early Bb7 line. After 4.Bg5, can Black play 4...h6 5.Bh4 g5 6.Bg3 Ne4, intending to meet 7.Nc3 with 7...Bb4? Or can White take advantage of Black's move order and play 7.Nfd2 or something else? I find these lines kind of confusing as Black.
  
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