Latest Updates:
Normal Topic The Famous Advance Bind; or, Who’s Attacking Whom? (Read 646 times)
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1857
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: The Famous Advance Bind; or, Who’s Attacking Whom?
Reply #5 - 09/22/20 at 07:19:11
Post Tools
Just in case anyone else is as fascinated by the strategic complexities of these Bxf5 lines as I am, I thought I'd mention that last night I stumbled upon a rare variation of the Advance I didn't know existed: 5 ...Bd7 6 Bd3 Rc8 7 a3 (best?) Nh6!?. The idea is that 8 Bxh6 is bad here, but after 8 0-0 cd 9 cd Nf5 10 Bf5 ef 11 Nc3 Be6, the position resembles those discussed above. Black has taken two moves to get his QB to e6, but White's castling is often regarded as inferior in the ...Nge7 version, and the move he's spent his extra tempo on (a2-a3) might be thought double-edged (and Black's ...Rc8 more useful?), so perhaps things balance out! ...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1857
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: The Famous Advance Bind; or, Who’s Attacking Whom?
Reply #4 - 09/20/20 at 17:15:43
Post Tools
Very interesting -- thanks again, and sorry for my rather clottish '...a5' misreading! I too had thought about precisely the grip plan you mention -- in fact that was the real basis of my pessimism -- but I had never thought that Black could himself boldly fight on the queenside! Will try to take a closer look ...
« Last Edit: 09/20/20 at 20:03:43 by Michael Ayton »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 935
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: The Famous Advance Bind; or, Who’s Attacking Whom?
Reply #3 - 09/20/20 at 16:52:11
Post Tools
To clarify, I wasn't suggesting ...Nc6-b4 + ...a7-a5. I was suggesting ...Nc6-b4 or ...Nc6-a5, depending mostly on whether/when white plays a2-a3.

I wouldn't worry too much about white sacrificing a queenside pawn. After something like ...Kc8-b8, ...Rd8-c8-c7, ...Rh8-c8, black is going to be fighting on the queenside with five pieces versus three, plus as Steinitz pointed out the king also counts as a defender. I would be more worried about a grip like a2-a3, b2-b4, Ne2-f4-d3-c5 when black would run out of room for all those queenside pieces. If white sacrifices a pawn, that mostly means there's no way to shut out the black pieces.

I don't think black should play ...g7-g6, making a target on h6, unless black has worked out that a further ...g6-g5 can't be stopped.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1857
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: The Famous Advance Bind; or, Who’s Attacking Whom?
Reply #2 - 09/20/20 at 16:16:42
Post Tools
Very interesting, thanks! I'm not aware that White's king shuffle contains any threat, but I did wonder whether after it White can meet 13 ...0-0-0 with 14 h5, and whether for that reason Black should go 13 ...g6 first. I considered the ...Rc8 manoeuvre but never thought of ...a5 and ...Nb4, partly 'cos I thought White would himself quickly go Rab1 and then b4, even as a pawn sac. I think I need to confess I haven't really got to grips with concrete sequences!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 935
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: The Famous Advance Bind; or, Who’s Attacking Whom?
Reply #1 - 09/20/20 at 15:06:32
Post Tools
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Nh6 6.Bd3 cxd4 7.cxd4 Nf5 8.Bxf5 exf5 9.Nc3 Be6 10.Ne2 Be7 11.h4 h6 12.Kf1 Qb6 13.Kg1 O-O-O

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

If white is not going to connect the rooks, can black switch back to the queenside? With ...Kb8, ...Rc8, ...Nb4/a5, etc. Or is Ke1-f1-g1 making some threat that I am missing?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1857
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
The Famous Advance Bind; or, Who’s Attacking Whom?
09/20/20 at 08:14:46
Post Tools
The title refers to the well-known line 3 e5 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 Nf3 Nh6/Nge7 6 Bd3 cd 7 cd Nf5 8 Bf5 (I’m less worried about 8 Bc2!? Qb6 9 Bf5 ef 10 Nc3 Be6 11 0-0 h6 12 Na4, e.g. 12 … Qb5 13 Ne1 Be7 14 Be3 Rc8 15 Nd3 Nb4; or 12 …Qa6 13 h4 Be7 and 14 h5 seems to allow the thematic 14 …f4!) ef 9 Nc3 Be6 10 Ne2 Be7 11 h4 h6.

Moskalenko, surprisingly, calls 6 Bd3 (after 5 …Nh6) dubious, citing his game with Nun which continued 12 Nf4 Qb6, but what on (e.g.) the king shuffle instead, 12 Kf1 Qb6 13 Kg1? Black presumably goes …0-0-0 in all cases, but are these positions really OK for him if White takes care to ensure that …f4 isn’t great and that ...g6/..g5 isn't dangerous (as happened in N--M)? Or is this easier said than done, and my thoughts too pessimistic? Anyone know the latest on this, or any hot sources? (Of course, in the 5 …Nh6 6 Bd3 move order, Black has 6 …f6!? as an alternative.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo