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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) New line in the Caro Kann Advance? (Read 1118 times)
GMTonyKosten
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #15 - 10/25/20 at 10:34:10
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HagenWatch1 wrote on 10/22/20 at 11:15:22:
Anybody know if this line is in the Archives at Chesspublishing?

No, I don't think so. 4 Bg5 doesn't score very well at all for White, 4...Qb6 does seem rather awkward.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #14 - 10/23/20 at 19:12:49
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Hi.

I get 53 corr games with:
1.e4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.d3

It's hard to see which games are relevant, let alone see a mainline; in some places the ball appears very much in white's court though. The 10 games with highest rated black players saw black lose one game:

[Event "LD/PRELIM S 3"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2020.06.30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hablizel, Frank"]
[Black "Smyth, Sandy"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B10"]
[WhiteElo "2388"]
[BlackElo "1948"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]

{[%evp 0,83,30,20,78,32,20,7,5,5,-3,6,-7,-43,-24,-30,-22,-22,-31,-38,-29,-28,
-15,-54,0,-8,27,33,35,22,54,46,46,49,50,34,69,58,79,30,16,16,8,3,19,42,44,-1,
171,175,180,174,172,172,172,194,229,217,236,249,249,231,238,223,256,253,259,
269,284,309,385,416,416,431,751,772,815,815,825,896,897,829,916,897,919,1099]}
1. e4 c6 2. d3 d5 3. Nf3 dxe4 4. dxe4 Qxd1+ 5. Kxd1 Nf6 6. Nfd2 e5 7. f3 Bd6 8.
a4 O-O 9. c3 Rd8 10. Kc2 h6 11. b4 Bc7 12. a5 Ne8 13. Nb3 Nd6 14. Be3 Nd7 15.
N1d2 Nf8 16. Be2 Ne6 17. g3 Bd7 18. Nc5 Bc8 19. f4 Nxc5 20. bxc5 exf4 21. gxf4
Ne8 22. Rhg1 Nf6 23. f5 Rxd2+ 24. Bxd2 Kf8 25. Bd3 Bxh2 26. Rg2 Be5 27. Be3 Nd7
28. Bd4 Bf6 29. Bxf6 Nxf6 30. Rag1 Ne8 31. e5 a6 32. Rf2 Rb8 33. Bc4 Ra8 34. e6
Nf6 35. e7+ Kxe7 36. Rxg7 Ne4 37. Rxf7+ Kd8 38. Rg2 Ng5 39. Rd2+ Ke8 40. Re2+
Kd8 41. Rf8+ Kc7 42. Re7+ 1-0

Have a nice day.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #13 - 10/23/20 at 18:51:18
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I bought the database when it was realied since I like hes base  1 e4 vs g6 systems and I have played d3 myself in a few games in the swedish online divisions and in other online divisions with mixed results. The most common move I met is endgame declined with Bg4 where I like white after h3.

In my experience Caro Kann is rare in Correspondence Chess I met mostly 1 .. e5 or 1 .. c5. I think I met 3 Caro Kann games in 4 years.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #12 - 10/23/20 at 18:17:04
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HagenWatch1 wrote on 10/23/20 at 13:59:48:
bragesjo wrote on 10/23/20 at 06:58:03:
Speaking of line with no name, have you seen 1 e4 c6 2 Nf3 d5 3 d3!. It has been played by Carlsen. The idea if to get a minium better endgame with a more active king and that the c6 pawn weakens blacks position after a future advance of white a pawn.


This is a fantastic move by Carlsen. I just took a look at this new idea and the brilliant thing is if Black refuses the Queen exchange offer with 3...Nf6?! White is already winning with 4. e5! forcing Black to move the just developed knight on f6. Wonder how Valentina Gunina and Alexandra Goryachkina are going to handle this new move from Carlsen. They can at least be happy they're not going up against him otherwise they'd be slaughtered facing this new move in the Caro Kann. And maybe this is why they don't want to risk the chance of trying to beat Carlsen because he'd use the chance to test new ideas nobody has seen yet against the Caro Kann.


Except that Carlsen didn't invent 3.d3 or, according to the chessbase database, play it anywhere other than in three recent bullet games against a 2600-rated GM.  Besides, he also plays the Hillbilly Attack, so what does he know? Smiley

As best I can tell, the top players have mostly tried 3.d3 in online blitz and sometimes rapid games, with mixed results.  Does anyone know of a high level test in a classical or correspondence game?




  
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #11 - 10/23/20 at 15:31:22
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It's lovely to see someone so excited by an early d3.

DW - you can get your rocks off even further here:
https://www.modern-chess.com/en/chess-databases/database=124

I'm a bit less convinced that the TPA busts the Caro, but it's one more challenge, and black has to be careful. We'll see when someone punts it v Firouzja eh.
  
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HagenWatch1
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #10 - 10/23/20 at 13:59:48
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bragesjo wrote on 10/23/20 at 06:58:03:
Speaking of line with no name, have you seen 1 e4 c6 2 Nf3 d5 3 d3!. It has been played by Carlsen. The idea if to get a minium better endgame with a more active king and that the c6 pawn weakens blacks position after a future advance of white a pawn.


This is a fantastic move by Carlsen. I just took a look at this new idea and the brilliant thing is if Black refuses the Queen exchange offer with 3...Nf6?! White is already winning with 4. e5! forcing Black to move the just developed knight on f6. Wonder how Valentina Gunina and Alexandra Goryachkina are going to handle this new move from Carlsen. They can at least be happy they're not going up against him otherwise they'd be slaughtered facing this new move in the Caro Kann. And maybe this is why they don't want to risk the chance of trying to beat Carlsen because he'd use the chance to test new ideas nobody has seen yet against the Caro Kann.
  
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #9 - 10/23/20 at 10:58:31
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Grin
  
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #8 - 10/23/20 at 08:24:11
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Yuri ‘The New Cyrus’ Krikun has a piece on this for Modern Chess.
Dry, but does the job. The ‘Talcum Powder Attack’, perhaps.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #7 - 10/23/20 at 06:58:03
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Speaking of line with no name, have you seen 1 e4 c6 2 Nf3 d5 3 d3!. It has been played by Carlsen. The idea if to get a minium better endgame with a more active king and that the c6 pawn weakens blacks position after a future advance of white a pawn.
  
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MNb
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #6 - 10/23/20 at 06:25:26
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Some moves are old and quite respectable; the ideas are well understood. Still they don't have a name. An example is 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.g3 e6 4.Nf3 / 4.Bg2 Bb4+.
We have the Leningrad, the Stonewall, the Iljin-Zjenevsky and even the Hort-Antosjin (the same Antosjin of Philidor fame), but 4...Bb4+ remains a variation with no name.
  

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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #5 - 10/23/20 at 02:03:01
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To explain a bit. It's generally not a single move that would get a name. It's about ideas and series of moves.

An example in the Caro is the 'Short system'. The idea he had is to play it kinda like a French Advance as white, just developing the k-side pieces and playing (rather than with an immediate break c4). And argue that the supposed more active bishop than in the parallel French, outside the pawn chain, is not really the advantage that it was thought to be. White can just develop, and black still has certain problems to solve. This approach was novel, and it was named after the developer, Nigel Short.

So, again, it's not really that individual moves are all awarded names. But series of moves, with ideas.

Bg5 cannot be bad, of course. Reasonable enough. It develops, and loses no pieces, and white is white. Sure.

Show us the ideas underpinning, show some games, and we can name it 'The Online Ice Cream Cousin' or something.
  
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #4 - 10/22/20 at 21:39:15
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I think they're just having some good-natured fun.  Normally a move doesn't get a name (at least not in modern times) unless it's taken up by a strong player and has some ideas associated with it.  If not, it's just another move without a name.
« Last Edit: 10/23/20 at 16:14:37 by ErictheRed »  
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HagenWatch1
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #3 - 10/22/20 at 17:07:10
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I didn't realize being snobbish and off-putting was allowed in the forum. Excuse my stupidity.
  
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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #2 - 10/22/20 at 15:47:23
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My late uncle Bob would have been flattered, but he didn't play chess. We need something better. I propose de Westerhaar-Vriezenveenschewijkse Attack.
  

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Re: New line in the Caro Kann Advance?
Reply #1 - 10/22/20 at 13:11:51
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Really?
No, not every legal move in every variation has a name.
But if you like, if you really need, 'Bob'.
  
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