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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Win with the Caro-Kann (Read 5718 times)
Stefan Buecker
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #14 - 01/30/21 at 13:16:28
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/29/21 at 19:43:44:
Your idea of 9.Be3 seems very nice.Edited:
On second thought, 9...Nxd3+ 10.Qxd3 Qe4 looks equal.

It is the kind of equality that can succeed otb - White is two pawns ahead, Black has compensation. Alternatively, White can play 9.Bc2 and sacrifice his queen. Both lines are interesting. - Of course ECO-B1 has many pages,  and it should not be criticized on the basis of a single line. That said, the inclusion of blitz games remains odd.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/29/21 at 19:43:44:
One thing I've noticed in Kaufman's books is his claim of += for evaluations which my other software gives as =. Similarly Kaufman gives +/- versus +=. Not to say either one is correct or incorrect, but I think it comes down to how much "advantage" white is willing to be satisfied with. After 6...e5 black does have an IQP, at least nominally it's something to work with.

Yes, even if it is +0.00 for SF12, humans need explanations. Kaufman uses all the best engines and still does a fine job to keep a human perspective.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #13 - 01/29/21 at 19:43:44
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That Budapest line is verbatim in the book, page 79, note 12. But no mention of an engine relating to it. I checked pages 1-7, 61, and 79.

Your idea of 9.Be3 seems very nice.Edited:
On second thought, 9...Nxd3+ 10.Qxd3 Qe4 looks equal.


One thing I've noticed in Kaufman's books is his claim of += for evaluations which my other software gives as =. Similarly Kaufman gives +/- versus +=. Not to say either one is correct or incorrect, but I think it comes down to how much "advantage" white is willing to be satisfied with. After 6...e5 black does have an IQP, at least nominally it's something to work with. I can imagine many Caro-Kann players being reluctant to take it on regardless of whether this particular position is equal or not. I think it's equal, but then again I play different IQP positions in my repertoire, for both sides. If Caro-Kann players don't like it and won't play 6...e5, that's a mild argument for taking up the Exchange Variation.

Another detail is in the lines Kaufman gives (I used the preview at amazon.com), whether or not black plays ...Qc7, all black's other moves are the same: ...Nf6, ...g6, ...Bg7, ...Bf5, ...O-O. The difference is against ...Qc7 white plays Be3, when black omits this white plays Bf4 and seems to get a little more out of the game. So, if black is *not* going to play 6...e5, it makes sense to play 5...Qc7.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #12 - 01/29/21 at 18:23:12
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When Nunn published his book, he published examples for the use of engines. At least that is how I remember it, maybe it was an article in a chess magazine. For example the new idea 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 (Budapest) 4.e4 Nxe5 5.f4 Nbc6?! 6.fxe5 Qh4+ 7.Kd2 Qf4+ 8.Kc3! Qxe5+ 9.Kd2 +/- Qf4+? 10.Ke1 Qh4+ 11.g3 +-. Very funny idea.

The ECO-B1 line above is something different. I'd say 12.Bh4 is =, and so far this line seems convincing. The rest of the game (3 minutes with 2s increment) is just lousy. No engine was used. Botvinnik's of 6...e5 = in the first edition of ECO B is still pretty good. If White wants to have an advantage, perhaps he might try 7.dxe5 Nxe5 8.Qe2 Qe7 9.Be3.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #11 - 01/28/21 at 13:32:42
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Nunn didn't have much to say about engines.

Quote:
We have used the latest computer tools at every stage of the writing process. All the authors used ChessBase and a large database to assemble the information for each table. This was then trimmed down to roughly the right size, while an analysis engine looked over the author's shoulder, ready to spot any nonsense that might otherwise creep into the book.
--Nunn et al (1999) Nunn's Chess Openings, "Introduction by John Nunn", page 6
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #10 - 01/28/21 at 12:21:25
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kylemeister wrote on 01/27/21 at 23:56:27:
I gather that 6...e5 7. de Nxe5 8. Nf3 is considered a bit better for White these days.  (ECO-B from 2002 had that as leading to equality; I wonder what the recent ECO-B1 gives.)

ECO-B1 has 6...g6 in the "tables", 6....e5 is a footnote.

There ECO-B1 gives this main line: 6...e5 7.dxe5 Nxe5 8.Nf3 Nxd3 9.Qxd3 Bd6 10.0-0 0-0 11.Bg5 h6 12.Bh4 Be6 13.Nbd2 Be7 14.Nd4 Re8 15.Rfe1 Bf8 16.Rad1 a6 17.N2f3 Rc8 18.Re2 g5 19.Nxe6 Rxe6 20.Bg3 Ne4 21. Nd4 Rg6 += Daniil Dubov - V. Gurvich, Moscow (blitz) 2018.

And plenty of sidelines, 4 out of the 5 quoted games are blitz games. It's fascinating, the editors have even been able to improve upon two of these blitz games! As they wrote in the foreword: "powerful engines made significant impact to the analysis". Question to Editor-in-chief Branko Tadic: Can "(blitz)" stand for 1-minute games in this volume, or would that be quoted as "(bullet)"? Just asking.

I remember Nunn wrote somethig similar in NCO's foreword, must check.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #9 - 01/28/21 at 01:32:56
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Kaufman should have at least mentioned it. When I was an amateur I knew a lot of book, but if "the book" didn't mentioned something *at all* then I would have thought it was an error and tried to punish it. But that's not the correct path here.

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Nf6 6.h3 e5 7.dxe5 Nxe5 8.Nf3
(8.Bb5+ Nc6 9.Bg5 Bc5 10.Qe2+ Be6 is Hartz - Euwe.
8.Qe2 Qe7! 9.Bb5+ Bd7 10.Bxd7+ Nfxd7 is Honfi - Portisch.
Both natural attempts to punish black that don't work out.)
  • 8...Nc6 Schwarz gives as leading to equality.
  • 8...Nxd3+ Schwarz gives as leading to approximate equality.
  • 8...Nxf3+ Schwarz gives as leading to +=.
  • 8...Bd6 Varnusz (quoting Botvinnik) gives as leading to equality.

For some reason I trust Botvinnik in this IQP position. I'm thinking of 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 c5 4.exd5 exd5 which he knew quite a bit about. I also used to play that way in the French, following the Karpov vs Korchnoi games; based on that experience I believe 8...Nxd3+ is a mistake (+=). And 8...Nc6 is a pure loss of tempo. So 8...Bd6 also makes sense by process of elimination.

ECO B (1984) copies Schwarz and Varnusz.
ECO B (1997) skips all that and gives Honfi - Portisch above, but says it is (=+) Gusev - Tseitlin, SSSR 1985 -- 40/153.
The "Small" ECO (2010), of which you spoke so unkindly before, doesn't mention 6.h3. The more I look at the Small ECO, the more I agree with your assessment.
  
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #8 - 01/27/21 at 23:56:27
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/27/21 at 22:47:59:
In the old Caro-Kann books they gave 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Nf6 6.h3?! e5!, e.g. Varnusz (1982) Play the Caro-Kann quotes Honfi - Portisch, Hungary 1962 (=+) and some analysis by Botvinnik (=). Schwarz (1966) Handbuch der Schach-Eroeffnungen Band 22 Die Vertiedigung Caro-Kann also gives Honfi - Portisch as well as Hartz - Euwe, 1927. Kaufman doesn't even mention 6...e5, which is a shame.

Yes, I was certainly surprised by that omission.

I gather that 6...e5 7. de Nxe5 8. Nf3 is considered a bit better for White these days.  (ECO-B from 2002 had that as leading to equality; I wonder what the recent ECO-B1 gives.)
  
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #7 - 01/27/21 at 22:47:59
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1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Qc7 6.h3 g6 7.Nf3 Bf5 8.0-0 Nf6 9.Be2 Bg7 10.Re1.

I was wondering why the move order you presented makes so little sense to me. But I see Kaufman actually doesn't mention 5...Qc7 6. h3 g6 but only 6...Nf6 there. And in his main line he gives 5...Nf6 6.h3 g6 7.Nf3 Bf5 8.Be2 (that makes more sense) O-O 9.O-O Qc7 and now 10.Re1. Anyway it looks like white's "plan" after retreating the bishop from d3 is to wait for black to play ...g6-g5 before putting the bishop back on d3.

In the old Caro-Kann books they gave 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Nf6 6.h3?! e5!, e.g. Varnusz (1982) Play the Caro-Kann quotes Honfi - Portisch, Hungary 1962 (=+) and some analysis by Botvinnik (=). Schwarz (1966) Handbuch der Schach-Eroeffnungen Band 22 Die Vertiedigung Caro-Kann also gives Honfi - Portisch as well as Hartz - Euwe, 1927. Kaufman doesn't even mention 6...e5, which is a shame.
  
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MicahSmith
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #6 - 01/27/21 at 10:42:53
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I bought the kindle version of this book. I was curious how their lines would compare to the lines recommended for White in Larry Kaufman's recent book "Kaufman's New Repertoire for Black and White" (Kaufman recommends three different systems against the Caro-Kann!). In all of the lines but one, they eventually recommend a move that Kaufman doesn't mention. In the other line, Kaufman recommends a move that they don't mention. After 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.c3 Qc7 6.h3 g6 7.Nf3 Bf5 8.0-0 Nf6 9.Be2 Bg7, they don't mention Kaufman's suggestion of 10.Re1. 
  
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Sjakk1
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #5 - 01/10/21 at 15:03:19
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Fun to see that the page number is calculated as 793 "page turns on a Kindle, using settings to closely represent a physical book." Quite a contrast to the 240 physical pages.
  
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TD
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #4 - 01/10/21 at 13:41:59
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The book is now also available as a downloadable Kindle book: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08P4WZJFR

The excerpt: http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/Win_with_the_Caro-Kann.pdf
  
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #3 - 01/09/21 at 14:44:27
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The book is now available as a downloadable app book: http://www.gambitbooks.com/webapp/appbooks.html
  
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #2 - 11/13/20 at 19:45:43
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MicahSmith wrote on 11/13/20 at 17:46:19:
Since Sverre was the co-author of the book "Win With the London System", I'm curious what he is going to recommend for Black against 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Bf4, which can come about via the London System after 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 cxd4 4.exd4.

Yes, I have that book as well and play the London on and off. When I used to play the Caro as my main defence it surprised me that 4.Bf4 wasn't played more often.
  
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Re: Win with the Caro-Kann
Reply #1 - 11/13/20 at 17:46:19
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Should be an interesting book. Since Sverre was the co-author of the book "Win With the London System", I'm curious what he is going to recommend for Black against 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.Bf4, which can come about via the London System after 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 cxd4 4.exd4.
  
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Win with the Caro-Kann
11/05/20 at 11:35:45
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Gambit is publishing a new book on the Caro-Kann by one of my favourite authors on openings Sverre Johnsen, together with T.R. Hansen.

http://www.gambitbooks.com/books/Win_With_the_Caro-Kann.html
  
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