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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Fishbein on French Exchange (Read 3132 times)
Fllg
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #20 - 12/23/20 at 13:37:19
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I have never played the Exchange Variation with White but since I have some experience from Black´s side I´m tempted to try 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.Bb5!? someday.
  
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MNb
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #19 - 12/23/20 at 07:11:36
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FreeRepublic wrote on 12/18/20 at 00:08:08:
That said, I do not see how white can be any worse in a symmetrical position where he is a tempo up..

There is one disadvantage with being a tempo up - White has to reveal his/her intentions first. A simple example: after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Black has Nc6. White won't get that position with an extra tempo after 4.Nc3 because Black can deviate, especially with ...Bb4. At the other hand 4.Bb5+ doesn't make sense.
Of course you're right that this is not nearly enough to argue for Black having an edge. Still Black can use this to maximize winning chances.
The only reason that there is no theory on the French Exchange is that nobody has written a book on it with systematical research. There is an abundance of games, even on (near) GM level.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #18 - 12/22/20 at 20:04:03
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Pantu wrote on 12/08/20 at 14:58:46:
I'm not sure there is that much theory on the exchange French.


Some of the positions that can arise when White plays lines involving c4 can also arise, admittedly sometimes with tempo differences from the Queens Gambit Accepted and the Petrov.
  
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #17 - 12/18/20 at 06:58:55
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Of course black isn't better, I was making a joke. Spraggett on his website said the Exchange Variation was best(!), so there is one strong player. Some GM-types I associate with the Exchange Variation: Morphy, Maroczy, Shaked, Ashley, Miezes. There are others but I forget at the moment. But aside from Spraggett I don't think any of them claimed it was advantageous for white.

I've looked at it carefully and think white has, as one GM says, "practical chances only". Sielecki's assessments in his 1.e4 book are, in my view, airily over-confident about white's play. In most of those IQP positions, even if white has a slight initiative, I would rather be black.
  
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #16 - 12/18/20 at 00:08:08
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I have never been tempted to play the exchange variation as white. 3e5, 3Nd2, and 3 Nc3 are more threatening in my, and most everyone else's, opinion. That said, I do not see how white can be any worse in a symmetrical position where he is a tempo up.

I think there is a bias against symmetry, and against the symmetrical choice. Most players just don't care for symmetrical positions. These biases tend to slide into evaluations. So we learn that white is better in the symmetrical Petroff, but White has nothing in the symmetrical French exchange variation, or the exchange Slav. Whichever side chooses symmetry has made a strategic mistake.

Curiously enough Black scores better in the exchange French. However I think that is due to the black being the better player. Perhaps it is time for a strong player to champion the exchange variation.
  
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #15 - 12/15/20 at 10:25:27
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MNb wrote on 12/09/20 at 17:36:24:
Aha. It doesn't occur to you that I misunderstood your Straggler's comment and thought your his question was about GM Fishbein's book on the Scotch Gambit?
OK.

You didn't misunderstand my comment. I'm sure my standards are not as high as yours: I am but a humble patzer trying to put together a repertoire for my young pupil, and for this purpose I have found Fishbein's book useful. But I am having trouble following your criticism about Weeramantry-Curdo. Were you perhaps thinking of Weeramantry-Brooks, Chicago 1994, which in 2011 you thought (no doubt rightly) was equal? But perhaps we should pursue this in the 1.e4 e5 section. I couldn't find a thread on Fishbein's book.
  
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #14 - 12/10/20 at 11:59:59
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MNb,

Ah, you are one of those people who are always justified.

I will buy you this book when it is out:

The Exchange French Comes to Life
   - Fresh Strategies to Play for a Win -
by GM Alex Fishbein ; Foreword by John Watson
Russell Enterprises ; 240 pages ; 25 $ ; April 2021

You post your address so I can have it sent to you ... and have good chess whatever opening you are playing!
  
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MNb
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #13 - 12/10/20 at 07:37:04
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RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 18:10:07:
MNb truly you have a great record with the French there ...keep it going!

You want me keep on losing half of my games after 3.Nc3? Despite me giving up 1...e6 a few years ago?
Tssk.

In my textbook a deal doesn't consist of "might be" and payment not of rating points. As expected you don't put your money where your mouth is.

  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #12 - 12/09/20 at 18:10:07
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MNb truly you have a great record with the French there ...keep it going!

I didn't have any questions, so yes, I can see there may have been confusion. 

And I might be providing you with extra rating points on the board after I read the book ... that will be my payment.

Have a good year!
  
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MNb
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #11 - 12/09/20 at 17:36:24
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RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 12:10:28:
MNb Reply #7 - Today at 07:51:37

Awesome record MNb!

Aha. It doesn't occur to you that I misunderstood your Straggler's comment and thought your his question was about GM Fishbein's book on the Scotch Gambit?
OK.

RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 12:10:28:
I say give the book a chance.

I will if you pay for me. Deal?
« Last Edit: 12/10/20 at 07:44:20 by MNb »  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #10 - 12/09/20 at 16:31:46
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RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 12:10:28:
Not sure what the forward quote from "The Scotch Gambit: An Energetic and Aggressive System for White" has to do with the book under discussion.

It made sense to me.

RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 12:10:28:
I say give the book a chance ... considering it isn't in print yet Smiley

Yes of course. In the meantime all sorts of comments are possible. Mine was joking and hardly contributed anything, at least MNb referenced a game -- which I intend to look at. By the way, Curdo is (or was) quite a good player, but if you are in the habit of setting your database filter to "both players greater than 2500" then you will never find that out.
  
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #9 - 12/09/20 at 16:27:41
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I am surprised for a book dedicated to this line but om the other hand  when I played French in over the board games I met the line in 75% of my games regardless of rating difference.
  
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RivertonKnight
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #8 - 12/09/20 at 12:10:28
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MNb Reply #7 - Today at 07:51:37

Awesome record MNb! I'm sure it has more to do with your skill and understanding of such positions compared to your opponents than the theoretical weakness of the Exchange French for White.

Not sure what the forward quote from "The Scotch Gambit: An Energetic and Aggressive System for White" has to do with the book under discussion.

I say give the book a chance ... considering it isn't in print yet Smiley
  
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #7 - 12/09/20 at 07:51:37
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MNb wrote on 12/08/20 at 12:00:02:
Assuming that the excerpt is representative it looks as superficial to me as GM Fishebein's book on the Scotch Gambit.

Straggler wrote on 12/08/20 at 18:17:16:
I thought it was pretty decent.

Then your demands aren't very high.
Straggler wrote on 12/08/20 at 18:17:16:
In what way is that book superficial?

I quote from the intro: "The theoretical section is therefore designed to be a step ahead of published theory or games in that particular variation."
Try to apply this to the section on the Hungarian Defense 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 d6/Be7, on the Philidor Fianchetto 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 and on the Philidor-Hanham 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7.
In game 3 try to find GM Fishebein's evaluation of the theoretically important game Weeramantry-Curdo, David Lees Mem 2002.
Then tell me who is theoretically one step ahead.

RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 01:43:39:
I would say the French Defence fanboys (don't get me wrong I used to be one) just want to choose what mainline French to play and don't like White having options Smiley

And you would be wrong. Many French fanboys I've met love to meet the Exchange Variation. I've played the French myself for more than 20 years and am undefeated, both OTB and in corr. chess, after everything but 3.Nc3.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #6 - 12/09/20 at 01:43:39
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I just ran the excerpt game through Stockfish 12 and the results seem fine for White.

I would say the French Defence fanboys (don't get me wrong I used to be one) just want to choose what mainline French to play and don't like White having options Smiley

  
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