ChessPub Forum - Fishbein on French Exchange

kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4939 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #23 - 05/22/21 at 22:05:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 05/22/21 at 21:22:31: 5.c3 Bd6 6.Bd3 Nge7 7.O-O Bg4 8.Re1 Qd7 9.Nbd2 O-O-O { ?! --Fishbein pg.176 } ( 9...O-O Fressinet - Short, World rapid ch, Riadh 2017 --Fishbein pg.180-182 (game74)) 10.b4 Ng6 Thavandiran - So, PRO League 2019 (1/2, 53) --Fishbein pg.176-178 (game 72) ( 10...Rde8 Stojchev - Jacimovic, Struga 2012 (1/2, 18) --Fishbein pg.178-179 (game73) RR Fishbein says white was winning in the final position. ) I wonder if he addresses 9...f6, which came up here a decade ago. https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1308353396/25#25


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Re: Fishbein on French Exchange
Reply #22 - 05/22/21 at 21:22:31

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To be honest, my first reaction is: why would anyone buy this rather than Sielecki's "Keep it Simple 1.e4" and get a full e4 repertoire to boot.

Well obviously Fishbein has a lot more material on the Exchange French: Fishbein 240 pages vs Sielecki 43 pages. Since the page sizes are different, I randomly selected two consecutive pages for each author to compare:

Author/page moves words diagrams
Fishbein/140 83 233 2
Fishbein/141 47 85 4
Sielecki/252 54 244 2
Sielecki/253 36 242 3

I compared Fishbein to Sielecki in the, in my opinion, important 4...Nc6 variation. It's a bit of a difference. Sielecki doesn't analyze 11...Be6 at all. Fishbein analyzes only 11...Be6. When I read Sielecki I was hesitant about this line with 5.Bb5 Bd6 6.c4 dxc4 7.d5, and reading Fishbein reinforces my hesitation. Unfortunately, Sielecki offers white no help if this line does not lead anywhere. Fishbein gives some alternatives, and although I'm not convinced white has anything in those lines either, at least white is not stuck playing the exact same nothing position every time.

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 Nc6

5.Bb5

Quote:

This is the only testing move. White needs to have something concrete against ...Bd6 / ...Nge7. A lame move like 5.Bd3 leads nowhere after 5...Bg4.
--Sielecki pg.252

Quote:

John Watson convincingly shows that the line with Bf1-b5 and the trade on c6 (sic) gives white nothing. We will propose three other ways of playing against ...Nc6.
--Fishbein pg.163

5.c3 Bd6 6.Bd3 Nge7 7.O-O Bg4 8.Re1 Qd7 9.Nbd2 O-O-O { ?! --Fishbein pg.176 }
( 9...O-O Fressinet - Short, World rapid ch, Riadh 2017 --Fishbein pg.180-182 (game74))
10.b4 Ng6 Thavandiran - So, PRO League 2019 (1/2, 53) --Fishbein pg.176-178 (game 72)
( 10...Rde8 Stojchev - Jacimovic, Struga 2012 (1/2, 18) --Fishbein pg.178-179 (game73) RR Fishbein says white was winning in the final position. )
5.Nc3!? Bg4
( 5...Bb4 6.Bd3 transposes to chapter 10 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.exd5 exd5 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Nf3 --Fishbein pg.183 )
6.Bb5 Ne7 Hovhannisyan - Grigoryan, Yerevan 2015 (1:0, 37) --Fishbein pg.183-185 (game 75)
( 6...Nf6 (by transposition) Fischer - Petrosian, c final (9), Buenos Aires 1971 (1:0,46) --Fishbein pg.185-186 (game 76) )
5.h3!? Fishbein - Shetty, World Open, Arlington 2014 (1:0, 33) --Fishbein pg.186-189 (game 77)

5...Bd6 6.c4 dxc4 7.d5 a6 8.Ba4 b5 9.dxc6 bxa4 10.O-O Ne7 11.Qxa4

11.Nbd2

Quote:

This is not yet popular, but it is better than 11.Qa4. I think that white retains a small edge after this move. It is nothing special, but it's the kind of position you will win sometimes and should never lose. After already having completed my analysis I noticed that Axel Smith recommends the same approach in his _e3 Poison_ book - an additional stamp of approval.
--Sielecki pg.253.
4...Nc6 is better in comparison (to 4...Bg4), but I still feel that rather white is calling the shots here. Make sure to study this line until the end. It is usually chosen by theoretically prepared people who will know more than just up to move 11.
--Sielecki pg.255

Quote:

A more subtle move order is 11.Nbd2, and here John Watson's prescription of 11...Be6! is effective ...
--Fishbein pg.167

Position after 11.Nbd2

11...Be6 analysis to move 18 (=) and in parenthesis quoting Davletbayeva - X.Zhang, Asian Continental women's 2015 to move 16 (=) --Fishbein pg.167
( 11...c3 quoting Meier - Bluebaum, Dresden 2017 to move 18 (+=) --Sielecki pg.253-254 (variation B1) )
( 11...O-O analysis to move 16 (+=) --Sielecki pg.254 (variation B2) )

11...O-O

11...Rb8 Turova - Rajlich, Budapest 2005 (0:1, 38) --Fishbein pg.167-169 (game 68)

12.Nbd2 Gelfand - Alekseev, World rapid ch, St Petersburg 2018 (1:0, 32) --Fishbein pg.165-167 (game67)

12.Qxc4 Kasparov - Bareev, rapid, Paris 1991 (1:0, 46) --Fishbein pg.163-165 (game 66)

FishbeinSielecki.pgn ( 3 KB | 119 Downloads )

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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1713 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #21 - 05/20/21 at 21:10:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	I commented on Fishbein's book in the Opening Repertoire How-To thread. https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1614190532/35#35


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Fllg God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 647 Joined: 05/30/09 Gender:	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #20 - 12/23/20 at 13:37:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	I have never played the Exchange Variation with White but since I have some experience from Black´s side I´m tempted to try 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Nc6 5.Bb5!? someday.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10758 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #19 - 12/23/20 at 07:11:36	Post Tools	Print Post
	FreeRepublic wrote on 12/18/20 at 00:08:08: That said, I do not see how white can be any worse in a symmetrical position where he is a tempo up.. There is one disadvantage with being a tempo up - White has to reveal his/her intentions first. A simple example: after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Black has Nc6. White won't get that position with an extra tempo after 4.Nc3 because Black can deviate, especially with ...Bb4. At the other hand 4.Bb5+ doesn't make sense. Of course you're right that this is not nearly enough to argue for Black having an edge. Still Black can use this to maximize winning chances. The only reason that there is no theory on the French Exchange is that nobody has written a book on it with systematical research. There is an abundance of games, even on (near) GM level.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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RdC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 868 Joined: 05/17/08	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #18 - 12/22/20 at 20:04:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I'm not sure there is that much theory on the exchange French. Some of the positions that can arise when White plays lines involving c4 can also arise, admittedly sometimes with tempo differences from the Queens Gambit Accepted and the Petrov.


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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1713 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #17 - 12/18/20 at 06:58:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	Of course black isn't better, I was making a joke. Spraggett on his website said the Exchange Variation was best(!), so there is one strong player. Some GM-types I associate with the Exchange Variation: Morphy, Maroczy, Shaked, Ashley, Miezes. There are others but I forget at the moment. But aside from Spraggett I don't think any of them claimed it was advantageous for white. I've looked at it carefully and think white has, as one GM says, "practical chances only". Sielecki's assessments in his 1.e4 book are, in my view, airily over-confident about white's play. In most of those IQP positions, even if white has a slight initiative, I would rather be black.


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FreeRepublic God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 822 Location: Georgia Joined: 06/08/17 Gender:	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #16 - 12/18/20 at 00:08:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	I have never been tempted to play the exchange variation as white. 3e5, 3Nd2, and 3 Nc3 are more threatening in my, and most everyone else's, opinion. That said, I do not see how white can be any worse in a symmetrical position where he is a tempo up. I think there is a bias against symmetry, and against the symmetrical choice. Most players just don't care for symmetrical positions. These biases tend to slide into evaluations. So we learn that white is better in the symmetrical Petroff, but White has nothing in the symmetrical French exchange variation, or the exchange Slav. Whichever side chooses symmetry has made a strategic mistake. Curiously enough Black scores better in the exchange French. However I think that is due to the black being the better player. Perhaps it is time for a strong player to champion the exchange variation.


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Straggler Senior Member Offline Posts: 382 Joined: 08/09/09	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #15 - 12/15/20 at 10:25:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb wrote on 12/09/20 at 17:36:24: Aha. It doesn't occur to you that I misunderstood your Straggler's comment and thought your his question was about GM Fishbein's book on the Scotch Gambit? OK. You didn't misunderstand my comment. I'm sure my standards are not as high as yours: I am but a humble patzer trying to put together a repertoire for my young pupil, and for this purpose I have found Fishbein's book useful. But I am having trouble following your criticism about Weeramantry-Curdo. Were you perhaps thinking of Weeramantry-Brooks, Chicago 1994, which in 2011 you thought (no doubt rightly) was equal? But perhaps we should pursue this in the 1.e4 e5 section. I couldn't find a thread on Fishbein's book.


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RivertonKnight Junior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 72 Joined: 01/30/09	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #14 - 12/10/20 at 11:59:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb, Ah, you are one of those people who are always justified. I will buy you this book when it is out: The Exchange French Comes to Life - Fresh Strategies to Play for a Win - by GM Alex Fishbein ; Foreword by John Watson Russell Enterprises ; 240 pages ; 25 $ ; April 2021 You post your address so I can have it sent to you ... and have good chess whatever opening you are playing!


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10758 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #13 - 12/10/20 at 07:37:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 18:10:07: MNb truly you have a great record with the French there ...keep it going! You want me keep on losing half of my games after 3.Nc3? Despite me giving up 1...e6 a few years ago? Tssk. In my textbook a deal doesn't consist of "might be" and payment not of rating points. As expected you don't put your money where your mouth is.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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RivertonKnight Junior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 72 Joined: 01/30/09	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #12 - 12/09/20 at 18:10:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb truly you have a great record with the French there ...keep it going! I didn't have any questions, so yes, I can see there may have been confusion. And I might be providing you with extra rating points on the board after I read the book ... that will be my payment. Have a good year!


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10758 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #11 - 12/09/20 at 17:36:24	Post Tools	Print Post
	RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 12:10:28: MNb Reply #7 - Today at 07:51:37 Awesome record MNb! Aha. It doesn't occur to you that I misunderstood your Straggler's comment and thought your his question was about GM Fishbein's book on the Scotch Gambit? OK. RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 12:10:28: I say give the book a chance. I will if you pay for me. Deal?
	« Last Edit: 12/10/20 at 07:44:20 by MNb »
	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1713 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #10 - 12/09/20 at 16:31:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 12:10:28: Not sure what the forward quote from "The Scotch Gambit: An Energetic and Aggressive System for White" has to do with the book under discussion. It made sense to me. RivertonKnight wrote on 12/09/20 at 12:10:28: I say give the book a chance ... considering it isn't in print yet Yes of course. In the meantime all sorts of comments are possible. Mine was joking and hardly contributed anything, at least MNb referenced a game -- which I intend to look at. By the way, Curdo is (or was) quite a good player, but if you are in the habit of setting your database filter to "both players greater than 2500" then you will never find that out.


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bragesjo God Member Offline CCE at ICCF 2021 and CCM at ICCF 2023 Posts: 1831 Location: Eskilstuna Joined: 06/30/06 Gender:	Re: Fishbein on French Exchange Reply #9 - 12/09/20 at 16:27:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	I am surprised for a book dedicated to this line but om the other hand when I played French in over the board games I met the line in 75% of my games regardless of rating difference.


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