(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › 1. e4 e5 Spanish › OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
(Moderators: proustiskeen, trw)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? (Read 10085 times)
cathexis
God Member
*****
Offline


No matter where you go,
there you are.

Posts: 645
Location: Stafford, Virginia USA
Joined: 03/03/20
Gender: Male
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #23 - 03/06/21 at 23:14:14
Post Tools
I just look forward to the day I can return some of the huge amounts of help I've received here. I'm sure my doc would be glad to know my poor A1C has been spared another assault.  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1727
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #22 - 03/06/21 at 18:27:07
Post Tools
Glad to help out. Thanks for the kind offer in return, but as an extreme introvert I won't be taking you up on it. I hope that's okay.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cathexis
God Member
*****
Offline


No matter where you go,
there you are.

Posts: 645
Location: Stafford, Virginia USA
Joined: 03/03/20
Gender: Male
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #21 - 03/06/21 at 15:06:08
Post Tools
Smooth as butter! 

Your instructions made it all so easy. Can't thank you enough!
Your sig sez you're in Columbus. If you ever have need to go to D.C. PM me and I'll buy you dinner if you'd like. 

Again - My Thanks,

Cathexis
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1727
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #20 - 03/06/21 at 02:25:34
Post Tools
I haven't used Fritz in a long time, but it's very similar to ChessBase and should work like this: 
  • Open your big database that has the Steinitz games.
  • Ctrl+F brings up the search.
  • Click the Reset button to get rid of any previous search.
  • Click on the Game data tab...
  • In the White box type Steinitz
  • Uncheck the Ignore colours box
  • Check the ECO: box
  • In the next two boxes put the ECO codes for the Ruy Lopez C60 - C99/99
  • Verify at the bottom that the Game data box is the only one checked.
  • You are done. I actually don't remember the name of the button to click now, it will be Search or OK or something, but anyway click it.

In the list you can do Ctrl+A to select them all and drag them into a new database. Now you have a database with all of Steinitz's games as white in the Ruy Lopez. But you wanted to look only at the 4.d3 games.

  • Ctrl+N brings up a new game.
  • Alt+F2 toggles Infinite Analysis mode so Fritz doesn't reply to your moves.
  • Play the moves to reach the position you care about, e.g. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.d3
  • *Without closing the game board*, switch to your small database that has the Steinitz white Ruy Lopez games.
  • Ctrl+F brings up the search.
  • Click the Reset button to get rid of any previous search.
  • Click on the Position tab...
  • Click the Copy board button.
  • Verify at the bottom that the Position box is the only one checked.
  • Click Search.

There are more search features in Fritz, you might search Smiley youtube for "Fritz ChessBaseProducts" and start with the ones by Steve Lopez from 9 years ago.
http://help.chessbase.com/Fritz/16/Eng/index.html
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cathexis
God Member
*****
Offline


No matter where you go,
there you are.

Posts: 645
Location: Stafford, Virginia USA
Joined: 03/03/20
Gender: Male
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #19 - 03/06/21 at 00:21:55
Post Tools
OK!

So this is what I've managed on my own so far,...

Opened Fritz. went to Database 2020. opened players tab & selected Steinitz and saw I could easily call up a list of 277 games and sort to Steinitz as White. I could also open tab - Openings and see a plethora of C60-C99 games but not very easy to find "4.d3" as it could be in various sub-categories but MOSTLY could not get a Steinitz-only Ruy Lopez list going to save my life.

Not easily a quitter, I copied all 277 Steinitz games to a new database on my desktop named, "Steinitz.CBH." and opened successfully! Displaying individual games with cute little thumbnails of Herr Steinitz and his Opponents. Under the Notation/comments tab the opening if known is displayed. But, alas! When I tried to sort the general Steinitz list by "Openings" tab - I get zip! The trees are there, greyed out but visible, but no moves or openings listed. Just blank trees. Undecided

What I am trying to do is create a database of all Steinitz's Ruy Lopez games, preferably searchable for those d3 moves whose games I wish to study - but I would be happy to just have all the Ruy Lopez ones.  This is my 1st time trying to make use of the database, so probably this is a easy fix and I just don't know it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1727
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #18 - 03/05/21 at 14:48:50
Post Tools
4.d3 is a very practical choice, also white can play d2-d3 in other variations, e.g. 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.d3, and even 3...f5 4.d3. I recommend you look at some Steinitz games in the Spanish, as he played this d3 center a lot. Steinitz was not strong compared to Alpha Zero or Magnus Carlsen, but Steinitz was plenty strong compared to me and you. There are a couple of good reasons for looking at older, relatively "unsophisticated" examples.
  1. The type of opponents you will face are more likely to respond in unsophisticated ways, more like Steinitz's opponents did.
  2. The sophistication of newer theory is partly built on older theory, so the newer theory becomes easier to understand if you have the background.

After looking at some classical games, you can go back to McDonald and compare his treatment with Steinitz's treatment. By the time you understand the differences there, you would be ready to play 4.d3 at quite a high level. By this time you will be better able to judge for yourself which source offers you the missing information. You might not need anything additional!

If you don't have a big database, chessgames.com is one online source for Steinitz games.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cathexis
God Member
*****
Offline


No matter where you go,
there you are.

Posts: 645
Location: Stafford, Virginia USA
Joined: 03/03/20
Gender: Male
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #17 - 03/05/21 at 14:05:56
Post Tools
So,...I wanted to revisit this thread. After having finished McDonald's book and gone over all the games therein OTB and having polished up and reviewed my notes, I want to drill deeper into the 4.d3 "Restrained Centre" (as McDonald calls it). My goal is to play it as white. I think that would be a good "next step" that is more focused than what I was originally looking for (and, more appropriate to my level). Several books were mentioned in this thread that I now know have at least a chapter on this line, Doknjas and Swiercz's being the most recent. Does anyone know of other books, videos, etc. that they might recommend that focus on the 4.d3 ideas more deeply or more exclusively than McDonald's book ? 

TIA,
Cathexis


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #16 - 01/19/21 at 21:23:09
Post Tools
As far as White Ruy Lopez repertoire books go, I believe Opening Repertoire: The Ruy Lopez by Doknjas has been well received.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MaxJudd
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 106
Joined: 12/09/09
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #15 - 01/16/21 at 01:50:49
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 01/15/21 at 21:17:30:
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/15/21 at 17:58:16:
I liked Flear's Offbeat Spanish so much I bought it a second time after my first copy went for a walkabout. I also liked his Open Ruy Lopez and once owned it, but books on the open don't age well.

Granted that the theory doesn't age well, can't the Open Ruy book still be useful for explanations and a historical perspective? Or are the lines played today so different from 20 years ago even that is irrelevant?

I'll admit I never studied the book in any detail, largely because I very rarely played either side of the Ruy Lopez. But I'm trying to justify still having it on my shelf...

I have both the Flear books and liked them a lot but if I were looking to get familiar with Spanish structures etc. to supplement and help choose repertoires from either side  (which you need to do before you dive deeper), I would start with McDonald's Move by Move book from 2011 mentioned below.  It is the best opening MTM book that I own . . .  not that I have all of them.  Getting deeper into the middle game with explanation is really important for many of these Spanish positions and he really does a great job of making them understandable and then you can have a feel if you prefer to play the Schliemann, Open, Berlin, or Marshall etc. as Black or the Exchange, 6. d3,  or anti-Marshall etc. as White.  At that point rather than looking at a survey, you can find a more drilled down book Chessable course, video or database.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cathexis
God Member
*****
Offline


No matter where you go,
there you are.

Posts: 645
Location: Stafford, Virginia USA
Joined: 03/03/20
Gender: Male
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #14 - 01/15/21 at 23:46:21
Post Tools
AOC said:

Quote:
Old theory at a minimum is important background for understanding new theory, and I often find myself in old theory anyway when my opponent is surprised and doesn't know anything. New theory sometimes is just different, other times it's actually better, and it's essential to know when that's true. But unless we are at least familiar with the old theory, how could we know?


I found this a very intriguing line of thought. To go completely off-topic it highlights precisely the cost of remaining silent in an era of "Cancel Culture." A literary analog to your remark would be this quote about one of my fav authors, M.R. James:

Quote:
to be civilized in James's eyes is to have a respect for the past, its architecture, its literature, its beliefs which have more truth in them than is at first apparent.


I hope you see the relevancy. Again, off-topic but for truthfulness in citing my source, see here FWIW:

https://www.hippocampuspress.com/warnings-to-the-curious-sheaf-of-criticism-on-m...

Excuse the interruption if you're bothered, 

Andrew
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1727
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #13 - 01/15/21 at 23:16:56
Post Tools
I don't know if I can help you with your justification. Is there a chance you would be helping a student prepare this opening?

I'm not opposed to old theory. For example I recently purchased Larsen (1967) Praktische Eröffnungstheorie: Was soll Schwarz spielen? Die Offene Variante in der Spanischen Partie!, and Krasenkov (1995) The Open Spanish. I went through the Larsen book pretty carefully but I didn't really like his choices. Krasenkov I just skimmed for now. To be honest I'm not sure why or when Flear's Open Ruy Lopez stopped being "on my shelf" (it would be in a box actually). If I still had it I would keep it, but I don't have it and at this point would rather get a different book.

Old theory at a minimum is important background for understanding new theory, and I often find myself in old theory anyway when my opponent is surprised and doesn't know anything. New theory sometimes is just different, other times it's actually better, and it's essential to know when that's true. But unless we are at least familiar with the old theory, how could we know?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3274
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #12 - 01/15/21 at 21:17:30
Post Tools
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/15/21 at 17:58:16:
I liked Flear's Offbeat Spanish so much I bought it a second time after my first copy went for a walkabout. I also liked his Open Ruy Lopez and once owned it, but books on the open don't age well.

Granted that the theory doesn't age well, can't the Open Ruy book still be useful for explanations and a historical perspective? Or are the lines played today so different from 20 years ago even that is irrelevant?

I'll admit I never studied the book in any detail, largely because I very rarely played either side of the Ruy Lopez. But I'm trying to justify still having it on my shelf...
  
Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3274
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #11 - 01/15/21 at 21:11:20
Post Tools
The sources mentioned in this older forum thread could also be good "next steps":

https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1552450723

I'm thinking of the video series by Monokroussos and the Chessable repertoire by Logozar (in addition to the ChessPublishing main site, of course).
  
Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1727
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #10 - 01/15/21 at 18:44:52
Post Tools
cathexis wrote on 01/15/21 at 14:47:32:
It is less than half the size of Swiercz's Vol. 1, but at 3/4 the price. If that matters. 

The Swiercz sample shows a huge amount of whitespace. It's the same thing I criticized in another recent Thinker's Publishing book, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

Update: Looking at that sample, I'm not too impressed by: 
"1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g5? 4.d4!+- is just crushing in the center." 
Brentano's Defense may not be good, but it does need more care than that. What would Gerard Welling say? (There is a document floating around the internet based on Welling's article for The New Myers Openings Bulletin. But for some reason after 4...Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.Qxd4 Qf6 it doesn't mention 7.Qe3 given as leading to +/- in Yudovich (1986) Spanish without ...a6. The document covers 7.Qd3, 7.Qxf6, and 7.e5.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1727
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"?
Reply #9 - 01/15/21 at 17:58:16
Post Tools
I liked Flear's Offbeat Spanish so much I bought it a second time after my first copy went for a walkabout. I also liked his Open Ruy Lopez and once owned it, but books on the open don't age well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2025. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge