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OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? (Read 12278 times)

cathexis God Member Offline No matter where you go, there you are. Posts: 661 Location: Stafford, Virginia USA Joined: 03/03/20 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #23 - 03/06/21 at 23:14:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	I just look forward to the day I can return some of the huge amounts of help I've received here. I'm sure my doc would be glad to know my poor A1C has been spared another assault.


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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1808 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #22 - 03/06/21 at 18:27:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	Glad to help out. Thanks for the kind offer in return, but as an extreme introvert I won't be taking you up on it. I hope that's okay.


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cathexis God Member Offline No matter where you go, there you are. Posts: 661 Location: Stafford, Virginia USA Joined: 03/03/20 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #21 - 03/06/21 at 15:06:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	Smooth as butter! Your instructions made it all so easy. Can't thank you enough! Your sig sez you're in Columbus. If you ever have need to go to D.C. PM me and I'll buy you dinner if you'd like. Again - My Thanks, Cathexis


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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1808 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #20 - 03/06/21 at 02:25:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	I haven't used Fritz in a long time, but it's very similar to ChessBase and should work like this: Open your big database that has the Steinitz games. Ctrl+F brings up the search. Click the Reset button to get rid of any previous search. Click on the Game data tab... In the White box type Steinitz Uncheck the Ignore colours box Check the ECO: box In the next two boxes put the ECO codes for the Ruy Lopez C60 - C99/99 Verify at the bottom that the Game data box is the only one checked. You are done. I actually don't remember the name of the button to click now, it will be Search or OK or something, but anyway click it. In the list you can do Ctrl+A to select them all and drag them into a new database. Now you have a database with all of Steinitz's games as white in the Ruy Lopez. But you wanted to look only at the 4.d3 games. Ctrl+N brings up a new game. Alt+F2 toggles Infinite Analysis mode so Fritz doesn't reply to your moves. Play the moves to reach the position you care about, e.g. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.d3 Without closing the game board, switch to your small database that has the Steinitz white Ruy Lopez games. Ctrl+F brings up the search. Click the Reset button to get rid of any previous search. Click on the Position tab... Click the Copy board button. Verify at the bottom that the Position box is the only one checked. Click Search. There are more search features in Fritz, you might search youtube for "Fritz ChessBaseProducts" and start with the ones by Steve Lopez from 9 years ago. http://help.chessbase.com/Fritz/16/Eng/index.html


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cathexis God Member Offline No matter where you go, there you are. Posts: 661 Location: Stafford, Virginia USA Joined: 03/03/20 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #19 - 03/06/21 at 00:21:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	OK! So this is what I've managed on my own so far,... Opened Fritz. went to Database 2020. opened players tab & selected Steinitz and saw I could easily call up a list of 277 games and sort to Steinitz as White. I could also open tab - Openings and see a plethora of C60-C99 games but not very easy to find "4.d3" as it could be in various sub-categories but MOSTLY could not get a Steinitz-only Ruy Lopez list going to save my life. Not easily a quitter, I copied all 277 Steinitz games to a new database on my desktop named, "Steinitz.CBH." and opened successfully! Displaying individual games with cute little thumbnails of Herr Steinitz and his Opponents. Under the Notation/comments tab the opening if known is displayed. But, alas! When I tried to sort the general Steinitz list by "Openings" tab - I get zip! The trees are there, greyed out but visible, but no moves or openings listed. Just blank trees. What I am trying to do is create a database of all Steinitz's Ruy Lopez games, preferably searchable for those d3 moves whose games I wish to study - but I would be happy to just have all the Ruy Lopez ones. This is my 1st time trying to make use of the database, so probably this is a easy fix and I just don't know it.


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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1808 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #18 - 03/05/21 at 14:48:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	4.d3 is a very practical choice, also white can play d2-d3 in other variations, e.g. 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.d3, and even 3...f5 4.d3. I recommend you look at some Steinitz games in the Spanish, as he played this d3 center a lot. Steinitz was not strong compared to Alpha Zero or Magnus Carlsen, but Steinitz was plenty strong compared to me and you. There are a couple of good reasons for looking at older, relatively "unsophisticated" examples. The type of opponents you will face are more likely to respond in unsophisticated ways, more like Steinitz's opponents did. The sophistication of newer theory is partly built on older theory, so the newer theory becomes easier to understand if you have the background. After looking at some classical games, you can go back to McDonald and compare his treatment with Steinitz's treatment. By the time you understand the differences there, you would be ready to play 4.d3 at quite a high level. By this time you will be better able to judge for yourself which source offers you the missing information. You might not need anything additional! If you don't have a big database, chessgames.com is one online source for Steinitz games.


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cathexis God Member Offline No matter where you go, there you are. Posts: 661 Location: Stafford, Virginia USA Joined: 03/03/20 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #17 - 03/05/21 at 14:05:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	So,...I wanted to revisit this thread. After having finished McDonald's book and gone over all the games therein OTB and having polished up and reviewed my notes, I want to drill deeper into the 4.d3 "Restrained Centre" (as McDonald calls it). My goal is to play it as white. I think that would be a good "next step" that is more focused than what I was originally looking for (and, more appropriate to my level). Several books were mentioned in this thread that I now know have at least a chapter on this line, Doknjas and Swiercz's being the most recent. Does anyone know of other books, videos, etc. that they might recommend that focus on the 4.d3 ideas more deeply or more exclusively than McDonald's book ? TIA, Cathexis


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Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #16 - 01/19/21 at 21:23:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	As far as White Ruy Lopez repertoire books go, I believe Opening Repertoire: The Ruy Lopez by Doknjas has been well received.


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MaxJudd Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 108 Joined: 12/09/09	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #15 - 01/16/21 at 01:50:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	Stigma wrote on 01/15/21 at 21:17:30: an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/15/21 at 17:58:16: I liked Flear's Offbeat Spanish so much I bought it a second time after my first copy went for a walkabout. I also liked his Open Ruy Lopez and once owned it, but books on the open don't age well. Granted that the theory doesn't age well, can't the Open Ruy book still be useful for explanations and a historical perspective? Or are the lines played today so different from 20 years ago even that is irrelevant? I'll admit I never studied the book in any detail, largely because I very rarely played either side of the Ruy Lopez. But I'm trying to justify still having it on my shelf... I have both the Flear books and liked them a lot but if I were looking to get familiar with Spanish structures etc. to supplement and help choose repertoires from either side (which you need to do before you dive deeper), I would start with McDonald's Move by Move book from 2011 mentioned below. It is the best opening MTM book that I own . . . not that I have all of them. Getting deeper into the middle game with explanation is really important for many of these Spanish positions and he really does a great job of making them understandable and then you can have a feel if you prefer to play the Schliemann, Open, Berlin, or Marshall etc. as Black or the Exchange, 6. d3, or anti-Marshall etc. as White. At that point rather than looking at a survey, you can find a more drilled down book Chessable course, video or database.


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cathexis God Member Offline No matter where you go, there you are. Posts: 661 Location: Stafford, Virginia USA Joined: 03/03/20 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #14 - 01/15/21 at 23:46:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	AOC said: Quote: Old theory at a minimum is important background for understanding new theory, and I often find myself in old theory anyway when my opponent is surprised and doesn't know anything. New theory sometimes is just different, other times it's actually better, and it's essential to know when that's true. But unless we are at least familiar with the old theory, how could we know? I found this a very intriguing line of thought. To go completely off-topic it highlights precisely the cost of remaining silent in an era of "Cancel Culture." A literary analog to your remark would be this quote about one of my fav authors, M.R. James: Quote: to be civilized in James's eyes is to have a respect for the past, its architecture, its literature, its beliefs which have more truth in them than is at first apparent. I hope you see the relevancy. Again, off-topic but for truthfulness in citing my source, see here FWIW: https://www.hippocampuspress.com/warnings-to-the-curious-sheaf-of-criticism-on-m... Excuse the interruption if you're bothered, Andrew


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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1808 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #13 - 01/15/21 at 23:16:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	I don't know if I can help you with your justification. Is there a chance you would be helping a student prepare this opening? I'm not opposed to old theory. For example I recently purchased Larsen (1967) Praktische Eröffnungstheorie: Was soll Schwarz spielen? Die Offene Variante in der Spanischen Partie!, and Krasenkov (1995) The Open Spanish. I went through the Larsen book pretty carefully but I didn't really like his choices. Krasenkov I just skimmed for now. To be honest I'm not sure why or when Flear's Open Ruy Lopez stopped being "on my shelf" (it would be in a box actually). If I still had it I would keep it, but I don't have it and at this point would rather get a different book. Old theory at a minimum is important background for understanding new theory, and I often find myself in old theory anyway when my opponent is surprised and doesn't know anything. New theory sometimes is just different, other times it's actually better, and it's essential to know when that's true. But unless we are at least familiar with the old theory, how could we know?


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Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3277 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #12 - 01/15/21 at 21:17:30	Post Tools	Print Post
	an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/15/21 at 17:58:16: I liked Flear's Offbeat Spanish so much I bought it a second time after my first copy went for a walkabout. I also liked his Open Ruy Lopez and once owned it, but books on the open don't age well. Granted that the theory doesn't age well, can't the Open Ruy book still be useful for explanations and a historical perspective? Or are the lines played today so different from 20 years ago even that is irrelevant? I'll admit I never studied the book in any detail, largely because I very rarely played either side of the Ruy Lopez. But I'm trying to justify still having it on my shelf...

	Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3277 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #11 - 01/15/21 at 21:11:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	The sources mentioned in this older forum thread could also be good "next steps": https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1552450723 I'm thinking of the video series by Monokroussos and the Chessable repertoire by Logozar (in addition to the ChessPublishing main site, of course).

	Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1808 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #10 - 01/15/21 at 18:44:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	cathexis wrote on 01/15/21 at 14:47:32: It is less than half the size of Swiercz's Vol. 1, but at 3/4 the price. If that matters. The Swiercz sample shows a huge amount of whitespace. It's the same thing I criticized in another recent Thinker's Publishing book, the name of which escapes me at the moment. Update: Looking at that sample, I'm not too impressed by: "1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g5? 4.d4!+- is just crushing in the center." Brentano's Defense may not be good, but it does need more care than that. What would Gerard Welling say? (There is a document floating around the internet based on Welling's article for The New Myers Openings Bulletin. But for some reason after 4...Nxd4 5.Nxd4 exd4 6.Qxd4 Qf6 it doesn't mention 7.Qe3 given as leading to +/- in Yudovich (1986) Spanish without ...a6. The document covers 7.Qd3, 7.Qxf6, and 7.e5.)


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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1808 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #9 - 01/15/21 at 17:58:16	Post Tools	Print Post
	I liked Flear's Offbeat Spanish so much I bought it a second time after my first copy went for a walkabout. I also liked his Open Ruy Lopez and once owned it, but books on the open don't age well.


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LeeRoth God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 1520 Joined: 10/22/05	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #8 - 01/15/21 at 17:54:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	John Emms’s Easy Guide to the Ruy Lopez is probably dated now, but, for club players, it was once the best White repertoire book on the market.


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Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3277 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #7 - 01/15/21 at 16:19:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/15/21 at 13:38:05: If you don't mind older books either of these would be a reasonable one-volume reference on the Spanish, of course with the caveat they are both hopelessly outdated on the Berlin: Suetin (1991) The Complete Spanish Lane (1991) The Ruy Lopez for the Tournament Player Neither one is a repertoire book a la Bologan. Suetin is a traditional tree style, and Lane is a collection of annotated complete games. Nowadays books tend to be more specialized, one could argue perhaps too specialized. Speaking of older books, I'm reminded that ChessPublishing's own Glenn Flear wrote three books on the Ruy Lopez for Everyman in the early 2000s (and btw. these don't seem to have been hit by the extreme out-of-print/hard-to-find pricing yet): Open Ruy Lopez (2000) Offbeat Spanish: Meeting the Spanish without 3...a6 (2001) The Ruy Lopez Main Line (2004) Judging from the quite favorable Amazon reviews, these three books between them should cover most of the Ruy Lopez, with the Marshall Attack the most important "omission". But of course there are other books for that one, including two by Pavlovic and one by Vigorito. Everything with 5...Bc5 (Möller, Arkhangelsk and Yurtayev), the Modern Steinitz (3...a6 4.Ba4 d6) and any unusual stuff on move 4 or 5 likely also missing. And here too the Berlin part is likely even more outdated than everything else. I only bought the book on the Open myself, mainly because Flear is a recognized Open Ruy specialist. But he is quite good at explaining things, and after all these years the complete game format of these books becomes an advantage. Most of the concrete theory is outdated anyway, so strategic explanations are the main reason they may still be worth getting. I'm a bit surprised nobody has mentioned Grooten's Understanding Before Moving volume on the Ruy and Italian. I just noticed a 2nd edition of this has been published recently: https://thinkerspublishing.com/product/understanding-before-moving-part-1-extend... Though maybe the thinking is this book is around the same level as "First Steps" and not a really a step up. Finally, let me mention Jansa's 2003 Batsford book Dynamics of Chess Strategy, which is much more focused on explaining specific openings than the title suggests. The White side of the Ruy Lopez is one of those openings and gets around 80 pages (the Grünfeld and the Sicilian Scheveningen also feature heavily).
	« Last Edit: 01/15/21 at 17:43:02 by Stigma »
	Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Stigma God Member Offline There is a crack in everything. Posts: 3277 Joined: 11/07/06 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #6 - 01/15/21 at 15:49:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	cathexis wrote on 01/15/21 at 14:47:32: It is less than half the size of Swiercz's Vol. 1, but at 3/4 the price. If that matters. In reality that means Swiercz' entire repertoire will be maybe four or six times as large as Caruana's - I'm not sure if two or three volumes are planned. As the excerpt shows, Swiercz' Volume 1 covers sidelines, the Berlin and the Open: https://thinkerspublishing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/The-Modernized-Ruy-Lop... That means these two repertoires have different target audiences. Caruana's book is explicitly titled "for Club Players", and it's a good bet he has carried over most or a lot of the same content as in his three-DVD series for Chessbase.

	Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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cathexis God Member Offline No matter where you go, there you are. Posts: 661 Location: Stafford, Virginia USA Joined: 03/03/20 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #5 - 01/15/21 at 14:47:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	To follow up, The Swiercz book mentioned by Nestor is expected out on amazon by Feb. 09, 2021. So just a few more weeks! See here: https://www.amazon.com/Modernized-Ruy-Lopez-Complete-Repertoire/dp/9464201037/re... The Caruana book mentioned by Pantu as teased for Spring 2021 is now said by Amazon as available in summer; June 29th, 2021. See here: https://www.amazon.com/Caruanas-Ruy-Lopez-Repertoire-Players/dp/905691944X/ref=s... It is less than half the size of Swiercz's Vol. 1, but at 3/4 the price. If that matters. All the other books mentioned above are still out there though some of the "According to Anand" volumes are over-priced as per the usual business practices. Thanks for your replies!


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an ordinary chessplayer God Member Offline I used to be not bad. Posts: 1808 Location: Columbus, OH (USA) Joined: 01/02/15	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #4 - 01/15/21 at 13:38:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	If you don't mind older books either of these would be a reasonable one-volume reference on the Spanish, of course with the caveat they are both hopelessly outdated on the Berlin: Suetin (1991) The Complete Spanish Lane (1991) The Ruy Lopez for the Tournament Player Neither one is a repertoire book a la Bologan. Suetin is a traditional tree style, and Lane is a collection of annotated complete games. Nowadays books tend to be more specialized, one could argue perhaps too specialized.


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Pantu Ex Member	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #3 - 01/15/21 at 13:23:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	There is a year old single volume repertoire work from Everyman here: https://everymanchess.com/collections/new-paperback-books/products/opening-reper... Discussed in this forum here: https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1570354453 Caruana has released some DVDs but a book is teased by New in Chess for release in the future: https://www.newinchess.com/caruana-s-ruy-lopez


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nestor Full Member Offline Posts: 144 Location: London Joined: 05/10/09 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #2 - 01/15/21 at 10:30:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	This has been a noticeable gap in the literature for some time. I think the last attempt at full coverage from White's perspective was in Khalifman's "According to Anand" series. The Lopez book was published in the early 2000s so it's nowhere near up to date, although it would still give a very good grounding in the areas which haven't developed much. Dariusz Swiercz is currently writing a Lopez repertoire for White (Thinkers Publishing). This may well be what you are looking for, if you can cope with maybe 1,000 pages over two volumes. I believe the first volume is published but I haven't seen it. Also the faithful followers of Quality Chess continue to await with joyful hope the completion of Parimarjan Negi's 1.e4 series, in which he is expected to cover the Lopez as his reply to 1...e5.


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hicetnunc Full Member Offline "Do something scary every day" Posts: 237 Location: Paris, France Joined: 01/04/03 Gender:	Re: OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? Reply #1 - 01/15/21 at 09:00:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	McDonald offers an introduction to d3 systems as well as main line c3+d4 systems for white. King's book talks about all the common Ruy Lopez pawn structures, so it can be considered an intro to most white options as well. Something as detailed as Bologans' book and offering different options for white would be a huge work. I don't think anything like that has been published ?!

	48 yo, 1920 elo
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cathexis God Member Offline No matter where you go, there you are. Posts: 661 Location: Stafford, Virginia USA Joined: 03/03/20 Gender:	OK, First Steps, what about "Next Steps"? 01/14/21 at 23:38:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	Greetings, I am not blind to the depth and breadth of published literature on the Spanish but I'd still like to ask a question. So, there seem to be some pretty well-reviewed intro books on the Ruy Lopez like Neil McDonald's, "Move by Move" for a more recent one and King's, "Mastering the Spanish" for an older one. But it seems that, after that book-wise you are going to have to chose some iteration or other like the Marshall, Exchange, etc. And there are a LOT of etcetera's! If I can be excused for stretching the analogy, I wanted to ask if there is a sort-of "Bologan for the White Ruy Lopez" out there? By which I mean, his two well-regarded books on Ruy Lopez and Black's Weapons sound as if they offer a lot of information, but don't confine themselves to just a single approach, even if Bologan has preferred approaches. Perhaps I wouldn't be too wrong in considering them of intermediate between intro books and single variation treatises. Does such a book exist for White's Ruy Lopez? A Ruy Lopez: Next Steps? Or is it just assumed you will submerge ala Capt. Nemo into the watery depths of this specialty or that? Hope this makes sense! Andrew


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