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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021) (Read 4075 times)
Bibs
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #21 - 03/11/21 at 22:14:08
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I think the problem with playing this nowadays as white, is that just about everyone knows and plays 8...Qd7 now. Word gas got round. White will do well to play carefully, and not end up a little worse.
  
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #20 - 03/11/21 at 17:36:04
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I've seen a preview of the anti-Lange lines in the updated version of Chris Baker's book (with Graham Burgess). 

There's some interesting ideas in there such as (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.0-0 Nxe4 6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Nc3) 8...Qh5 9.Nxe4 Be6 10.Bg5 Bd6 11.h4, the idea being to provoke 11...h6 and then play 12.Nxd6+ cxd6 13.Bf4 Qd5 14.c3, and then if 14...Rc8 15.c4 Qxc4 16.Rc1 and tactics start, and having played ...h6 Black is less able to bring the king out of danger with ...f6 in certain lines due to the weakening of the kingside light squares. 

That said, looking at that line, if 14...0-0 I'm not sure that White has any decent alternatives to bailing out into the standard dead drawn ending with 15.Nxd4 Nxd4 16.Qxd4 Qxd4 17.cxd4.  If 15.c4 Qxc4 16.Bxd6 Rfd8 (or 16.Rc1 Qd5) there are no tactics, the black king is safe and the passed pawn on d4 is potent. 

Thus, I'm still inclined to suggest that the best way to generate interesting and equal play against 8...Qh5 is Stefan Bücker's pawn sacrifice 9.Nxe4 Be6 10.Neg5 0-0-0 11.Nxe6 fxe6 12.Bg5 (instead of 12.Rxe6), envisaging 12...Re8 13.Re4.  The late Mark Morss provided some good analysis of 12...Rd5 some time ago, but that also lead to positions with chances for both sides. 

There is no way to an advantage for White in these lines though, 8...Qh5 equalises as do 8...Qa5 and 8...Qd7, and having played some of these lines from both sides of the board, I wouldn't agree that White has most of the fun.  Black has quite a few nice ideas as well.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #19 - 03/10/21 at 10:28:07
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Helpful and well-pitched comments as ever, Bibs – thanks for them. Hope they produce the improvement that’s surely needed …
  
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Bibs
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #18 - 03/10/21 at 02:57:10
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Michael Ayton wrote on 03/09/21 at 10:59:02:
‘Not for the first time’ is dead right. The overwhelming majority of people on this forum are friendly and respectful, but then every so often you get tiresome insulting stuff like #12 which seems to receive not the slightest slap-down. I’m all for light-touch moderation, but in my opinion (I appreciate others may disagree) that shouldn’t mean feather-light.



I think that part of the problem is that Mods come and go.

It baffles me why people need to be so unduly combative. It's a good board game, a very good one even, but it's just a board game. Nothing life or death here peeps. Relax a bit, tone it down, be friendly. Go for a walk in the park, smell the flowers, feed the ducks, come back and then post maybe eh.

Perhaps we can see these interactions as a dance rather than as a battle. As discussion rather than debate.

@Tony K - time to look again at the Mods situation for each zone? As an example, 'SmyslovFan', a constructive and interesting contributor in his day, has not been seen here for many a moon.
  
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #17 - 03/10/21 at 01:20:49
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katar wrote on 03/09/21 at 17:49:48:
TopNotch wrote on 03/08/21 at 20:40:58:
The Anti Max Lange Gambit - 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.0-0 Nxe4 6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Nc3 This ancient line along with the so called Deutz Gambit form the Backbone of the repertoire against 1...e5, the last time I saw this stuff touted for White was by Eric Schiller and Andy Soltis way back in the 90's, it was suspicious then and even more so now.

Graham Burgess updated Chris Baker's old "Startling" repertoire book featuring these lines.  Baker called the "Deutz gambit" the "Koltanowski" variation.  Chessable also has a "Max Attack" course on the Max Lange and Deutz/Koltanowski variations for White.


Thanks for that bit of info, I actually forgot about the Chris Baker Book which was pretty good overall for its time. The more I think about it, these Deutz & Anti-Max Lange lines could come in handy if one needs a draw against stronger opposition.
  

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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #16 - 03/09/21 at 17:49:48
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TopNotch wrote on 03/08/21 at 20:40:58:
The Anti Max Lange Gambit - 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.0-0 Nxe4 6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Nc3 This ancient line along with the so called Deutz Gambit form the Backbone of the repertoire against 1...e5, the last time I saw this stuff touted for White was by Eric Schiller and Andy Soltis way back in the 90's, it was suspicious then and even more so now.

Graham Burgess updated Chris Baker's old "Startling" repertoire book featuring these lines.  Baker called the "Deutz gambit" the "Koltanowski" variation.  Chessable also has a "Max Attack" course on the Max Lange and Deutz/Koltanowski variations for White.
  

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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #15 - 03/09/21 at 11:28:28
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I have no problem with players posting material on incorrect openings as well. Those who play the Max Lange Attack might be really interested in hearing an up-to-date assessment of it from grandmasters.
The problems start when false promises are made. The chess community is also based on trust and there are both authors and whole publishers who lost my trust by selling absolute crap under false promises.

I think with Simon Williams you know what you're getting. His offer is not aimed at the very strongest players and many of his fans buy his products simply to support him. After all, you have to give him credit for playing the openings he recommends. That's not a given either.
  
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #14 - 03/09/21 at 10:59:02
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‘Not for the first time’ is dead right. The overwhelming majority of people on this forum are friendly and respectful, but then every so often you get tiresome insulting stuff like #12 which seems to receive not the slightest slap-down. I’m all for light-touch moderation, but in my opinion (I appreciate others may disagree) that shouldn’t mean feather-light.
  
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #13 - 03/09/21 at 09:22:24
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MNb wrote on 03/09/21 at 03:57:05:
Now I'm out of this thread again

tldr

If you are unable to discuss things without resorting to nastiness and personal abuse – and not for the first time – then frankly good riddance.
  
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #12 - 03/09/21 at 03:57:05
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Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
@MNb - You seem to be making the assumption that prospective buyers expect objectivity or theoretical soundness in the lines being proposed.

Please restrict yourself to what I write, not to what you think you can read between the lines. It saves you from making false assumptions about me. Usually I stop reading after such a bad start, but for you I'll make an exception.

Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
You're right that Chessable haven't mentioned that, but nor have they claimed the lines presented are sound.

Bogus. They promise quick wins and devestating attacks. That 28 percentage shows that, unlike what they and you falsely suggest, chances are low after 2.Bc4.

Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
All they've said is that the lines are 'approved by grandmasters and even world champions'.

As expected you're going downhill. Neither 2.Bc4 against the Caro-Kann nor 5.d4 in the Italian are "approved by grandmasters and even world champions". You're actually confirming what I really suggested; the advertisement is dishonest.

Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
A stronger player won't expect the lines to be sound,

A weaker player like me neither, so this is irrelevant.

Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
while weaker players frankly won't care,

So what? I don't care either what weaker players think or not. I only care if this video is worth my money. The answer is no for the reasons I gave. How other weaker players want to spend their money is none of my business. This is even more irrelevant.

Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
as it's not theoretical soundness they're interested in but exciting and aggressive lines offering the chance of attacks and quick wins.

False dilemma. It's possible to strive for both. Accidentally I just looked at GM Schandorff's recommendation against 6.Bc4 e6 7.Nqe2 Nf6 8.O-O in Capablanca's Caro Kann from his 2010 book. There is a big hole that gives White "exciting and aggressive" play in theoretically sound lines, with real chances of "attacks and quick wins".

Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
We live in a world where products are advertised to us all the time, and as consumers it's up to us to understand the rules of the game.

Smarty, I do understand. I just dislike them and you are one of the guys who has a problem with this and react withs a condescending comment based on false assumptions (the other one is that I need your extensive explanation - I don't).

Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
We know that people sell us beer by telling us how great it tastes, not by warning us we might wake up with a bit of a headache the morning after drinking it.

Wrong analogy. The second part should be "not by warning us that it tastes like shit".
Guess what? I dislike Pabst being advertised as quality beer as well.

Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
Why should the the marketing of chess products be any different?

Why should I think this kind of marketing acceptable?
The reason this kind of marketing exists is because they can get away with it. Like criminals. It should be unnecessary, but especially for you I'll add a disclaimer: I'm not saying that GM Williams and IM Palliser are criminals or that this advertisement is a crime.

My prediction came true again - after starting a comment with a false assumption the rest of it only can go downhill. The only reason I took the effort to react is that you have demonstrated in the past that you can do much better.
Now I'm out of this thread again. This one exception is already more than enough. You accept dishonesty in advertisement; I don't. Waste your money on this or not; just don't expect me to remain silent. 'Nuff said.
  

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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #11 - 03/09/21 at 02:59:21
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Pantu wrote on 03/08/21 at 21:54:11:
TopNotch wrote on 03/08/21 at 20:40:58:
The Hillbilly against the Caro-Kann
    


This reminded me that Williams lost fairly badly playing a rubbish line against Gawain Jones in a Caro-Kann some years ago, and sure enough:

[Event "4NCL 2011-12"]
[Site "Staverton Park ENG"]
[Date "2011.11.12"]
[Round "1.15"]
[White "Williams, Si1"]
[Black "Jones, G"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2513"]
[BlackElo "2635"]
[ECO "B10"]
[EventDate "2011.11.12"]
[WhiteTeam "Jutes of Kent"]
[BlackTeam "White Rose"]

1.e4 c6 2.Bc4 d5 3.Bb3 dxe4 4.Qh5 g6 5.Qh4 Bg7 6.Nc3 a5 7.Nxe4 a4 8.
Bc4 b5 9.Be2 Nh6 10.g4 a3 11.Rb1 Qd5 12.Nc3 Qxh1 13.Kf1 Be5 14.Bf3
Qxh2 15.Nh3 Nxg4 16.Bxg4 Bf6 0-1

I've been using Chessable more recently, and I'd say in a sense it is like the chess book market: some great books, some good books with flaws, some quite rubbish - except the nonsense they write in the course descriptions make me wonder if Lakdawala is truly that bad in comparison.


Yes, he still is.

One could consider an axis of sorts: (1) Eric Schiller (bad moves in rushed books), (2) Ray Keene (plagiarism) and (3) Lakdawala (writing style).
  
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #10 - 03/09/21 at 01:58:10
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All this talk of the Hillbilly Attack is making me nostalgic. The 3.Bb3 novelty was devised by NM Jack Young, and the name "Attack" was intended to be ironic. Jack was always interested in the humorous side of chess. One thing is for sure -- Simon Williams doesn't understand the point of this opening, which was simply that the bad move 2.Bc4 really wasn't so bad! Jack was also the inventor of the infamous Fishing Pole (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.O-O Ng4 5.h3 h5) and numerous other laughable systems which he discussed in Bozo's Opening Emporium in Chess Horizons. Nothing pleased Jack more than getting away with a bad opening. Along those lines, when he took up checkers he was particularly interested in the barred openings. For a short while at the turn of the millenium I rented a room from Jack, and got to see first-hand how hard he worked at his crazy openings. He would play them in correspondence and against the computer before trying them out over-the-board.

Here's an early Hillbilly Attack, against the well-known FM Asa Hoffmann. The ratings are just guesses. I became NM in 1987 and I remember Asa was a little higher rated than me. I was surprised by 1...c6 and answered 2.Bc4 on the spur of the moment. It was a back and forth struggle for both of us. As he noted in the post-mortem, I could have forced a late draw with 41.Bxg4 then Rxc2. Instead 41.Bxb3 was an insane attempt to win with both flags hanging, and I went rapidly downhill from there. I never played it again, although if I had won this game I might have!

[Event "Manhattan CC Insanity 12-SS (g/30)"]
[Site "New York (USA)"]
[Date "1988.06.05"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Bennett, Allan"]
[Black "Hoffmann, Asa"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B10"]
[WhiteElo "2250"]
[BlackElo "2350"]

1.e4 c6 2.Bc4 d5 3.Bb3 dxe4 4.Qh5 g6 5.Qh4 Nf6 6.f3 a5 7.Nc3
b5 8.a4 e3 9.d4 b4 10.Ne4 Nxe4 11.Qxe4 Bf5 12.Qe5 Rg8 13.Qxe3
Bg7 14.Ne2 Na6 15.O-O Nc7 16.Kh1 Nd5 17.Qf2 h5 18.Bd2 Qb6 19.Rae1
O-O-O 20.Rc1 e5 21.dxe5 Qxf2 22.Rxf2 Bxe5 23.c3 Kb7 24.Ng3 bxc3
25.bxc3 Bxg3 26.hxg3 Rge8 27.c4 Nb4 28.Bxb4 axb4 29.c5 Rd3 30.Rb2
Rc3 31.Ra1 Ka7 32.Bxf7 Rb8 33.Re1 Rb7 34.Be8 Rxc5 35.g4 hxg4
36.fxg4 Bc2 37.Rc1 b3 38.Bxg6 Rg7 39.Bf5 Rc4 40.Be6 Rcxg4 41.Bxb3
Be4 42.Rc5 Bxg2+ 43.Kg1 Bd5+ 44.Kf1 Rg1+ 45.Ke2 R7g2+ 46.Kd3
Rxb2 47.Ra5+ 0-1
  
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #9 - 03/08/21 at 21:54:11
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TopNotch wrote on 03/08/21 at 20:40:58:
The Hillbilly against the Caro-Kann
    


This reminded me that Williams lost fairly badly playing a rubbish line against Gawain Jones in a Caro-Kann some years ago, and sure enough:

[Event "4NCL 2011-12"]
[Site "Staverton Park ENG"]
[Date "2011.11.12"]
[Round "1.15"]
[White "Williams, Si1"]
[Black "Jones, G"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2513"]
[BlackElo "2635"]
[ECO "B10"]
[EventDate "2011.11.12"]
[WhiteTeam "Jutes of Kent"]
[BlackTeam "White Rose"]

1.e4 c6 2.Bc4 d5 3.Bb3 dxe4 4.Qh5 g6 5.Qh4 Bg7 6.Nc3 a5 7.Nxe4 a4 8.
Bc4 b5 9.Be2 Nh6 10.g4 a3 11.Rb1 Qd5 12.Nc3 Qxh1 13.Kf1 Be5 14.Bf3
Qxh2 15.Nh3 Nxg4 16.Bxg4 Bf6 0-1

I've been using Chessable more recently, and I'd say in a sense it is like the chess book market: some great books, some good books with flaws, some quite rubbish - except the nonsense they write in the course descriptions make me wonder if Lakdawala is truly that bad in comparison.
  
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #8 - 03/08/21 at 21:02:56
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Seeley wrote on 03/08/21 at 14:22:40:
... We know that people sell us beer by telling us how great it tastes, not by warning us we might wake up with a bit of a headache the morning after drinking it. Why should the the marketing of chess products be any different?

Okay, but when someone on a random message board points out the likely ensuing headache, that should also be fine, right? And maybe someone else might say it doesn't even taste that great...
  
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Re: Chessable - Grandmaster Gambits 1.e4 (2021)
Reply #7 - 03/08/21 at 20:40:58
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@Seeley

When a GM endorses an Opening product most buyers do expect soundness, promising lines plus a few evaluation changing novelties, we don't get that here. Moreover even the title of the Course is misleading 'Grandmaster Gambits' GM's very rarely venture this stuff even in simuls, and quite frankly it usually  points to a deficiency in the few titled players that do. Now to the meat of the matter:

Exhibit A)

The Hillbilly against the Caro-Kann - That's the equivalent of thumbing your nose at the audience, I mean really!! You had months to prepare something useful and you decide to waste a chapter on this flight of fancy. When I first saw 1.e4 c6 2.Bc4 it made me cringe, like scraping a nail on a chalk board. Williams claims that Black has to play perfectly to get the better game here, gimme a break and Palliser should really have talked ginger out of that one. The simple 1.e4 c6 2.Bc4 d5 3.Bb3 a5!? not considered in the course already leaves white struggling to equalise and improves, as if one was needed, on the mainline given, the idea is that 4.a3 or a4 gives black Nd7 to c5 added punch when it arrives, a sample line could be: 4.a4 dxe4 5.Qh5 e6 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Qh4 Nbd7 8.Nxe4 Nxe4 9.Qxe4 Nc5 10.Qe3 Nxb3 11.Qxb3 Qd5 and Black is already better, not to mention L'ami's lifetime Repertoire on the Caro preceded Palliser's course and in it he gives the 'Hillbilly' (just typing the name makes me feel silly) short thrift and apparently GingerGM agrees with L'ami's analysis but decided to offer up this wet lettuce anyway. Some will argue that Magnus has played the Hillbilly, but will be slow to reveal it was in 1 minute (Bullet) chess and my answer would be Naka plays the Bongcloud, who cares.

Moving on we have a slew of rehashed 1.e4 e5 gambits where the Course again claims Black can only equalise with 'perfect play' which implies that he has a narrow path to a playable game. That's downright dishonest, lets take a quick look:

Exhibit B)

The Anti Max Lange Gambit - 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.0-0 Nxe4 6.Re1 d5 7.Bxd5 Qxd5 8.Nc3 This ancient line along with the so called Deutz Gambit form the Backbone of the repertoire against 1...e5, the last time I saw this stuff touted for White was by Eric Schiller and Andy Soltis way back in the 90's, it was suspicious then and even more so now. After 8.Nc3 Black is completely fine after all three main replies, which are 8...Qa5, 8...Qh5 and the more modern 8...Qd7 I myself have always had a fondness for 8...Qh5, here is the thing though, Ginger does not dispute this but implies that Black's moves are so hard to find and that it is White who is having all the fun. Let me tell you, I have been playing the Black side of these 'bluff' lines all my life and my only concern was how to avoid the drawish positions that result. They do at times offer a novelty or two but these novelties do not really improve on existing theory, there are essentially just different moves that do nothing to alter the evaluation of these lines as toothless. 

A Titled Tuesday game featuring Ginger vs Gata Kamsky (Eventually Drawn) was used in a Youtube promo to plug the course and the efficacy of this Anti-Max Lange line. Perhaps it would have been better to quit while ahead and avoid the risk of being hoisted by ones own petard, but luckily for us we are treated to another internet encounter where the line is tested again, this time Ginger gets to employ one of the Courses big novelties 13.c3!? against an unsuspecting fellow GM, for the record I think that 14...Rad8 is even more convincing than what 'DryCounty' did, anyway lets tune in and witness all the 'Fun' Ginger was having: https://youtu.be/Uywru5_sHNE?t=4433

    
« Last Edit: 03/09/21 at 07:42:04 by TopNotch »  

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