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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Picking up the Pirc? (Read 1383 times)
Pantu
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #24 - 04/23/21 at 14:01:48
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Stigma wrote on 04/23/21 at 13:31:08:
P. S.: It looks like several people here use Chessable but are unaware of the handy Analysis Board feature, which leats you peek at which moves different courses cover, even those you don't own yourself!

I've used it on the 4.Be3 a6 5.h3 Pirc and found that the new Pirc LTR managed to find a move order that's not directly covered in either of the White repertoires by So, Sielecki or Chessforlife (via his backup weapon 4.h3!? in the latter case). The question is whether it's any good though - it seems to be a passive-looking setup with an early ...e6 and ...Nc6. I'm skeptical on first impression, but maybe I will have to get the course to see the details and how they explain it.


Thanks for the hint, I was also able to recreate at least one line and my initial reaction is that it is not a line I would want to depend on for a "lifetime"...
  
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #23 - 04/23/21 at 13:31:08
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Pantu wrote on 04/23/21 at 12:48:09:
TopNotch wrote on 04/23/21 at 12:03:21:
I analysed Sielecki's 5.h3 when his Keep it Simple 1.e4 first came out and was unconvinced by his analysis, but never bothered to post anything back then. Now however I couldn't resist and if you are curious check out the Chessable discussion forum for Lifetime Repertoire: The Pirc, you may find a few more details. Wink
https://www.chessable.com/discussion/thread/381858/comment/383500/
   


I was never convinced by 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 0-0 5.h3 in any way (5.Qd2 seems clearly stronger), but my wonder is about 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 a6 5.h3, which is the LTR pirc recommendation as far as I can tell. 

Both Sielecki and So recommended this approach for white in their 1.e4 repertoires.

Good catch! ...sadly. Here I got my hopes up happily thinking TopNotch may have solved the big 4.Be3 a6 5.h3 problem for Black, but no such luck.  Undecided
Edit: I'm sure the linked post is still a useful piece of analysis though! I'm not ungrateful.

After 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7, instead of 5.h3 I guess 5.Qd2 c6 6.Bh6 is the biggest problem.

P. S.: It looks like several people here use Chessable but are unaware of the handy Analysis Board feature, which leats you peek at which moves different courses cover, even those you don't own yourself!

I've used it on the 4.Be3 a6 5.h3 Pirc and found that the new Pirc LTR managed to find a move order that's not directly covered in either of the White repertoires by So, Sielecki or Chessforlife (via his backup weapon 4.h3!? in the latter case). The question is whether it's any good though - it seems to be a passive-looking setup with an early ...e6 and ...Nc6. I'm skeptical on first impression, but maybe I will have to get the course to see the details and how they explain it.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Pantu
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #22 - 04/23/21 at 12:48:09
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TopNotch wrote on 04/23/21 at 12:03:21:
Pantu wrote on 04/21/21 at 16:58:12:
TopNotch wrote on 04/21/21 at 12:19:23:
Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.


In the free video introduction he mentions that he wanted to investigate an opening with his friend that they didn't know very well, which was on reason they chose the Pirc.

The short & sweet version is out and I'm mildly annoyed that after 4.Be3 a6 it only covers 5.Qd2 and 5.Nf3, and not the critical 5.h3! which is close to a refutation according to...Sielecki in his 1.e4 course/book.


I analysed Sielecki's 5.h3 when his Keep it Simple 1.e4 first came out and was unconvinced by his analysis, but never bothered to post anything back then. Now however I couldn't resist and if you are curious check out the Chessable discussion forum for Lifetime Repertoire: The Pirc, you may find a few more details. Wink
https://www.chessable.com/discussion/thread/381858/comment/383500/
   


I was never convinced by 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 0-0 5.h3 in any way (5.Qd2 seems clearly stronger), but my wonder is about 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 a6 5.h3, which is the LTR pirc recommendation as far as I can tell. 

Both Sielecki and So recommended this approach for white in their 1.e4 repertoires.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #21 - 04/23/21 at 12:34:07
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Agreed. I have been very impressed by chessforlife stuff too.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #20 - 04/23/21 at 12:28:49
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RoleyPoley wrote on 04/23/21 at 11:41:07:
Bibs wrote on 04/23/21 at 07:44:26:
**All GMs are made equal. In fact, all titled players are made equal.**

Or are they?! Unlike dear aoc, I suggest not. And I’m surprised this has offended.

LifeTime Repertoires are, I think, designed and marketed as a very specific type of product. Normal rules do not apply here.

Very, very high level, and robust enough to...last a lifetime.

Hence, to have something so robust one needs a very strong author, no? A very knowledgeable author who plays chess at an unusually high level. No, I would not think any IM is strong enough for that kind of product and I stand by that.

Look at the other authors so far. What do we see? We see very strong GMs. Not just GMs, but higher rated ones. Way out of the league of probably everyone here.



IM John Bartholomew's LTR on the Scandinavian is due to be published shortly. FM Kamil Plichta has one on the KIA coming out soon too. IM Sopiko Guramishvili's LTR on the QGA has already been published (although criticised by some for not including a broad enough repertoire to justify the label)


I wouldn't be surprised if the highlighted course was delayed a bit, as there has been some powerful analysis released in recent months that put all four forms of the Scandi under tremendous pressure: Scandinavian Defence by by GM Ivan Cheparinov;
Lifetime Repertoires: Wesley So's 1. e4 (Part 1) and Crush the Alekhine and Scandinavian! by Chessforlife (chessable).

Chessforlife deserves special mention as he seems to be an untitled author, but the quality of his work is particularly impressive and for some reason I always get this curious feeling that he is one of us here at chesspub.  Cool
« Last Edit: 04/24/21 at 07:21:47 by TopNotch »  

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Bibs
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #19 - 04/23/21 at 12:10:13
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Oh dear. Such a pity if the idea is being diluted.

The higher level of the players and the depth and level of the repertoires are what *made it* the LTR series. Differing from the other more regular courses. Or perhaps I had just got too excited by these really strong players explaining stuff. Possible,

I have kinda liked the Kamil Plichta stuff. He comes across well as a presenter. Less so Bartholomew (IMHO, but good luck to him and to all). But will they produce at the same level as So, Svidler, l'Ami...? Hmmm. Perhaps LTR, as this punter saw it, is falling by the wayside.

Anyway, people can judge what they want to buy, and buy. Or not. For me, I am keen to learn from people who are much better than me, and I think that is reasonable. So's course is fantastic btw. Wow.

Happy chessing, happy shopping. Be masked, be safe, be healthy and prosper.

B
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #18 - 04/23/21 at 12:03:21
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Pantu wrote on 04/21/21 at 16:58:12:
TopNotch wrote on 04/21/21 at 12:19:23:
Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.


In the free video introduction he mentions that he wanted to investigate an opening with his friend that they didn't know very well, which was on reason they chose the Pirc.

The short & sweet version is out and I'm mildly annoyed that after 4.Be3 a6 it only covers 5.Qd2 and 5.Nf3, and not the critical 5.h3! which is close to a refutation according to...Sielecki in his 1.e4 course/book.


I analysed Sielecki's 5.h3 when his Keep it Simple 1.e4 first came out and was unconvinced by his analysis, but never bothered to post anything back then. Now however I couldn't resist and if you are curious check out the Chessable discussion forum for Lifetime Repertoire: The Pirc, you may find a few more details. Wink
https://www.chessable.com/discussion/thread/381858/comment/383500/
   
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #17 - 04/23/21 at 11:41:07
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Bibs wrote on 04/23/21 at 07:44:26:
**All GMs are made equal. In fact, all titled players are made equal.**

Or are they?! Unlike dear aoc, I suggest not. And I’m surprised this has offended.

LifeTime Repertoires are, I think, designed and marketed as a very specific type of product. Normal rules do not apply here.

Very, very high level, and robust enough to...last a lifetime.

Hence, to have something so robust one needs a very strong author, no? A very knowledgeable author who plays chess at an unusually high level. No, I would not think any IM is strong enough for that kind of product and I stand by that.

Look at the other authors so far. What do we see? We see very strong GMs. Not just GMs, but higher rated ones. Way out of the league of probably everyone here.



IM John Bartholomew's LTR on the Scandinavian is due to be published shortly. FM Kamil Plichta has one on the KIA coming out soon too. IM Sopiko Guramishvili's LTR on the QGA has already been published (although criticised by some for not including a broad enough repertoire to justify the label)
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #16 - 04/23/21 at 07:44:26
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**All GMs are made equal. In fact, all titled players are made equal.**

Or are they?! Unlike dear aoc, I suggest not. And I’m surprised this has offended.

LifeTime Repertoires are, I think, designed and marketed as a very specific type of product. Normal rules do not apply here.

Very, very high level, and robust enough to...last a lifetime.

Hence, to have something so robust one needs a very strong author, no? A very knowledgeable author who plays chess at an unusually high level. No, I would not think any IM is strong enough for that kind of product and I stand by that.

Look at the other authors so far. What do we see? We see very strong GMs. Not just GMs, but higher rated ones. Way out of the league of probably everyone here.

Rating-wise, Sielecki is plainly a real outlier among all the LTR authors. Numbers have meaning.
 
Level and knowledge matters in prep, obviously. As an example, I was contacted and asked for input some years ago when choosing the new national team coach here. We (the director and I) opted for someone with good communication skills, and who was experienced and strong - over 2600. The previous guy was a decent old school Russian IM, but not good enough for the players we had coming through. I pushed for this from 2004, and this changed for 2008. As an aside in this story, people may know the then director's husband - a Mr Bobby Fischer. Guess she knew the value of needing good players on board Wink

Dear boy, aoc, tone it down. Really, tone it down. Caaaaalm. Your comment is not called for. Best to avoid personal attacks on fellow members here. Go outside, leave your PC, go get some fresh air.

And this is no disrespect to Mr Sielecki. He is a very good writer, and what he does, he does incredibly well. His 1.d4 Keep it simple was an excellent tome.

Peace and good chess to you aoc, and to all.
« Last Edit: 04/23/21 at 12:24:27 by Bibs »  
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #15 - 04/23/21 at 06:50:09
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Bibs wrote on 04/22/21 at 23:50:20:
TopNotch wrote on 04/21/21 at 12:19:23:
Tauromachie wrote on 04/19/21 at 13:13:12:
The LTR chessable repertoire is available now.

Not a huge fan of the Pirc defense personally, but Sielecki is undeniably a good thereotician/author so I would be surprised if this course would not turn out to be pretty good quality wise.


Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.


Completely agree.
And by a strong (2600+) GM. Not sure the typical IM knows much or any more than me (or Toppy here).
Further - surprised that the length of a lot of these lines is actually fairly short. Unusually so for LTR.

So now we are all supposed to dismiss the "typical IM", are we? And your 2600+ requirement leaves the universally respected author Marin, amongst others, rather out in the cold...

I thought you agreed to tone it down after your previous "random GM" comment. I'm imagining you're one of those types at the club who, when someone dares an opinion about your chess position, asks straight out "What's your rating?"

To which I say: Cut it out.
  
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #14 - 04/22/21 at 23:50:20
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TopNotch wrote on 04/21/21 at 12:19:23:
Tauromachie wrote on 04/19/21 at 13:13:12:
The LTR chessable repertoire is available now.

Not a huge fan of the Pirc defense personally, but Sielecki is undeniably a good thereotician/author so I would be surprised if this course would not turn out to be pretty good quality wise.


Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.


Completely agree.
And by a strong (2600+) GM. Not sure the typical IM knows much or any more than me (or Toppy here).
Further - surprised that the length of a lot of these lines is actually fairly short. Unusually so for LTR.
  
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #13 - 04/21/21 at 20:57:05
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RoleyPoley wrote on 04/21/21 at 20:15:24:
Someone asked about the line from his 1.e4 book and he says that he has new move against it in his LTR. I appreciate that doesn't help with the S&S version.

The standard of discussion/reviews on chessable have got worse. It was bad enough when people were not providing a critical insight into the products now you often struggle to get much feedback at all and the peek inside video offers nothing at all. Quite disappointing considering how much these products can cost.


I saw that comment as well.

I think they are counting on the 30 day refund to appease people: I have now bought quite a few chessable courses and only really wanted to ask for this refund once, and decided against it as I felt there was still some useful content in it.  There are some "dead tree" books on my bookshelf I would have been delighted to have the refund option on though!

I do wish Chessable would make their "sale" prices permanent, as their courses seem to spend a majority of the time on sale anyway.
  
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #12 - 04/21/21 at 20:15:24
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Pantu wrote on 04/21/21 at 16:58:12:
TopNotch wrote on 04/21/21 at 12:19:23:
Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.


In the free video introduction he mentions that he wanted to investigate an opening with his friend that they didn't know very well, which was on reason they chose the Pirc.

The short & sweet version is out and I'm mildly annoyed that after 4.Be3 a6 it only covers 5.Qd2 and 5.Nf3, and not the critical 5.h3! which is close to a refutation according to...Sielecki in his 1.e4 course/book.


Someone asked about the line from his 1.e4 book and he says that he has new move against it in his LTR. I appreciate that doesn't help with the S&S version.

The standard of discussion/reviews on chessable have got worse. It was bad enough when people were not providing a critical insight into the products now you often struggle to get much feedback at all and the peek inside video offers nothing at all. Quite disappointing considering how much these products can cost.
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Pantu
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #11 - 04/21/21 at 16:58:12
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TopNotch wrote on 04/21/21 at 12:19:23:
Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.


In the free video introduction he mentions that he wanted to investigate an opening with his friend that they didn't know very well, which was on reason they chose the Pirc.

The short & sweet version is out and I'm mildly annoyed that after 4.Be3 a6 it only covers 5.Qd2 and 5.Nf3, and not the critical 5.h3! which is close to a refutation according to...Sielecki in his 1.e4 course/book.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #10 - 04/21/21 at 12:19:23
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Tauromachie wrote on 04/19/21 at 13:13:12:
The LTR chessable repertoire is available now.

Not a huge fan of the Pirc defense personally, but Sielecki is undeniably a good thereotician/author so I would be surprised if this course would not turn out to be pretty good quality wise.


Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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