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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Picking up the Pirc? (Read 2304 times)
Bibs
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #14 - 04/22/21 at 23:50:20
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TopNotch wrote on 04/21/21 at 12:19:23:
Tauromachie wrote on 04/19/21 at 13:13:12:
The LTR chessable repertoire is available now.

Not a huge fan of the Pirc defense personally, but Sielecki is undeniably a good thereotician/author so I would be surprised if this course would not turn out to be pretty good quality wise.


Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.


Completely agree.
And by a strong (2600+) GM. Not sure the typical IM knows much or any more than me (or Toppy here).
Further - surprised that the length of a lot of these lines is actually fairly short. Unusually so for LTR.
  
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Pantu
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #13 - 04/21/21 at 20:57:05
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RoleyPoley wrote on 04/21/21 at 20:15:24:
Someone asked about the line from his 1.e4 book and he says that he has new move against it in his LTR. I appreciate that doesn't help with the S&S version.

The standard of discussion/reviews on chessable have got worse. It was bad enough when people were not providing a critical insight into the products now you often struggle to get much feedback at all and the peek inside video offers nothing at all. Quite disappointing considering how much these products can cost.


I saw that comment as well.

I think they are counting on the 30 day refund to appease people: I have now bought quite a few chessable courses and only really wanted to ask for this refund once, and decided against it as I felt there was still some useful content in it.  There are some "dead tree" books on my bookshelf I would have been delighted to have the refund option on though!

I do wish Chessable would make their "sale" prices permanent, as their courses seem to spend a majority of the time on sale anyway.
  
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RoleyPoley
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #12 - 04/21/21 at 20:15:24
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TopNotch wrote on 04/21/21 at 12:19:23:
Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.


In the free video introduction he mentions that he wanted to investigate an opening with his friend that they didn't know very well, which was on reason they chose the Pirc.

The short & sweet version is out and I'm mildly annoyed that after 4.Be3 a6 it only covers 5.Qd2 and 5.Nf3, and not the critical 5.h3! which is close to a refutation according to...Sielecki in his 1.e4 course/book.


Someone asked about the line from his 1.e4 book and he says that he has new move against it in his LTR. I appreciate that doesn't help with the S&S version.

The standard of discussion/reviews on chessable have got worse. It was bad enough when people were not providing a critical insight into the products now you often struggle to get much feedback at all and the peek inside video offers nothing at all. Quite disappointing considering how much these products can cost.
  

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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #11 - 04/21/21 at 16:58:12
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TopNotch wrote on 04/21/21 at 12:19:23:
Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.


In the free video introduction he mentions that he wanted to investigate an opening with his friend that they didn't know very well, which was on reason they chose the Pirc.

The short & sweet version is out and I'm mildly annoyed that after 4.Be3 a6 it only covers 5.Qd2 and 5.Nf3, and not the critical 5.h3! which is close to a refutation according to...Sielecki in his 1.e4 course/book.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #10 - 04/21/21 at 12:19:23
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Tauromachie wrote on 04/19/21 at 13:13:12:
The LTR chessable repertoire is available now.

Not a huge fan of the Pirc defense personally, but Sielecki is undeniably a good thereotician/author so I would be surprised if this course would not turn out to be pretty good quality wise.


Sielecki is fairly diligent researcher and analyst but I would have much preferred a Lifetime Repertoire on the Pirc to be undertaken by an actual devoted practitioner of the Opening. I will reserve judgement until substantive reviews are posted about this Course.
  

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Michael Ayton
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #9 - 04/21/21 at 10:12:05
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One development is a lot stronger engines though. Maybe I will go over the key lines at some point and see what they say. I already did in a few small places and Leela for example gave close to a whole new setup at one point. Or rather it says this passive looking stuff is not so bad. Having played a corr tournament relying on it, I think it would seem realistic that it could potentially misassess stuff badly though ...

Good points! Using engines judiciously can be tricky sometimes, but one has to try ...
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #8 - 04/20/21 at 22:18:45
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Hi.

Michael Ayton wrote on 04/20/21 at 17:55:28:
Rightly or wrongly, this for me is the Pirc bugbear. There was a huge thread on this quite a long way back now, the main analytical hero there being C_b_T! Have there been any significant developments since then, I'm wondering?

Not much otb play going on obviously.

In the Be3+Qd2+Nf3 lines sure. We have recent repertoires from Negi and I think So. Don't actually know if the latter is true only heard rumours what he recommends.

In 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 c6 6.Bh6 Lots of corr games in various lines. It seems to be the clearly most popular move in correspondence right now. Most people don't necessarily know about and follow analysis from chesspub forum section slavishly, so a lot of continuations discussed here still awaits testing though.

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 c6 6.f3 I don't know. Does not appear to be a hot line right now and is not played much (especially by strong players) in correspondence.

Have a nice evening.

Edit: One development is a lot stronger engines though. Maybe I will go over the key lines at some point and see what they say. I already did in a few small places and Leela for example gave close to a whole new setup at one point. Or rather it says this passive looking stuff is not so bad. Having played a corr tournament relying on it, I think it would seem realistic that it could potentially misassess stuff badly though so idk...
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #7 - 04/20/21 at 17:55:28
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I also think it stands to reason by now that 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 is at least a bit annoying to face as black.

Rightly or wrongly, this for me is the Pirc bugbear. There was a huge thread on this quite a long way back now, the main analytical hero there being C_b_T! Have there been any significant developments since then, I'm wondering?
  
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #6 - 04/19/21 at 21:28:47
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Thanks, guys! Great input!
  
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #5 - 04/19/21 at 13:43:23
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Hi.

I think Marin's GM repertoire is very good to have. Not absolutely essential maybe... and frankly there are a lot of lines where you get the feeling white can easily come up with new ideas. The book does give a good idea of how to play key structures in many lines though. This kind of knowledge is important if you want to utilise the same structures in a repertoire.

As for lines:
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nd2 is a bit fun detracting. Not that hard to play for black though.

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Bd3 same.

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.f3 is a little bit irritating. Black has lots of options though. I am not really to unhappy for this reason.

1.e4 d6 2.Nc3 Can be a little sad to play against if white has some plan of playing that does not involve an early d4. Say 2...Nf6 3.f4 (I got this sometimes when playing Alekhine - 1...Nf6). If black goes 3...c5 white can toy with 4.e5 and 4.Bb5+ ideas and 3...g6 4.e5 is interesting. It resembles a line of Austrian but white can try to find new ideas instead of transposing. 1.e4 d6 2.Nc3 g6 is probably more likely to lead to a Pirc later compared to 2...Nf6, since it does not give white as many ideas.

Once you are in the actual Pirc I don't find so many lines unfun. The Classical variation (4.Nf3, 5.Be2), I agree can be a bit dry though.
I also think it stands to reason by now that 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 is at least a bit annoying to face as black. The second player can always go 4...c6 or 4...a6 though so at least there are options there.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #4 - 04/19/21 at 13:13:12
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The LTR chessable repertoire is available now.

Not a huge fan of the Pirc defense personally, but Sielecki is undeniably a good thereotician/author so I would be suprised if this course would not turn out to be pretty good quality wise.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #3 - 04/19/21 at 12:57:02
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And the LTR Pirc course is about to land any day now on Chessable.
Sielecki has been a good author so far.  Dunno his sidekick there tho.

  
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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #2 - 04/19/21 at 12:13:52
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halbstark wrote on 04/19/21 at 08:06:34:
Are there some approaches that totally spoil the fun for black? Is it worth picking up the Pirc in 2021?

1. The Classical 5.Be2 can be dry. It's often hard to develop counterplay against it, especially when you're used to the Dragon. The Pseudo-Hippo 6...e6 might be most interesting.
As for the 1...d6 vs. 1...g6 choice I'd say the answer depends on the question if you're willing to play th KID. If yes 1...g6 offers a wider choice against the Austrian and also against the Be3, Bf4 and Bg5 variations.
2. Yes, if you feel comfortable in the resulting middle games.
  

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Re: Picking up the Pirc?
Reply #1 - 04/19/21 at 10:19:00
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Tiger's Modern isn't exactly current but still a very good book. The bell cow is Marin's book for Quality Chess, both are standouts to me.
  
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halbstark
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Picking up the Pirc?
04/19/21 at 08:06:34
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Hi guys,

I am looking for a new weapon that I can play regularly - even if not as my main weapon- against 1.e4. The Pirc (with the traditional move order 1...d6 and 2...Nf6) is based on various reasons quiet appealing to me. You can play it in different ways, all pieces stay on the board and as an old dragon player I like having my bishop on g7:)
But before I want to dive too deep into theory I wanted to ask you: Are there some approaches that totally spoil the fun for black? Is it worth picking up the Pirc in 2021?

I played some 1...g6-moderns in my life with decent success but always as a surprise weapon and without too much theory. Is it worth spending time on the Pirc?Cheesy If yes, are there some outstanding books on the Pirc? (I have the Vigus book from 2007 which is great but outdated.) I am used to work with databases on my own so I would only buy a book if it is literally a "must-read".

What are your experiences? Thanks in advance:)
  
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