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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili (Read 6513 times)
Keano
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #46 - 05/21/21 at 09:33:00
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TopNotch wrote on 05/20/21 at 17:35:04:
No this line is not considered in the Course, and it's just more evidence that this product seemed rushed out before it was ready. Beta Testing was obviously very poor.


hmm, well its a very old recommendatiion, but still quite trappy so would have expected it to be covered. Was also tried out by Nigel Short I believe.

Maybe these modern guys just go with the latest fashion and forget the history
  
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Keano
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #45 - 05/21/21 at 09:30:39
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doefmat wrote on 05/21/21 at 09:18:22:
What line exactly? Can you name the moves starting at move 7?


6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8.O-O-O Bd7 9. Be2
  
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doefmat
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #44 - 05/21/21 at 09:18:22
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Keano wrote on 05/20/21 at 06:52:55:
Does he cover the old John Nunn suggestion 9.Be2!? in the Rauzer?


What line exactly? Can you name the moves starting at move 7?

About the beta testing discussion; it isn't clear to me if Chessable uses proper editors or proofreaders. When reading introductions from ordinary paper opening books like ones from Quality Chess, writers usually mention people who have helped them. I believe it is very common that writers miss moves and other people at the publishing company help them before the book finally gets released. The final product is never made by just a single person.

We don't know if Chessable uses beta testers for this or not. Maybe they also have professionals to check the product before release and beta testing is only for grammar and other minor stuff.
  

Chesspub; where people devote their whole life to find novelties on move 26 just to blunder on move 27
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LeeRoth
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #43 - 05/21/21 at 00:26:22
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TopNotch wrote on 05/20/21 at 17:35:04:
Keano wrote on 05/20/21 at 06:52:55:
Does he cover the old John Nunn suggestion 9.Be2!? in the Rauzer?


No this line is not considered in the Course, and it's just more evidence that this product seemed rushed out before it was ready. Beta Testing was obviously very poor.


Presumably, he meets 9.Be2 with 9..Be7 when White usually plays 10.f4.  That line is covered in the Course under the move order 9.f4 Be7 10.Be2. But, yes, if that was the intent, the transposition should have been noted.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #42 - 05/20/21 at 22:36:10
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That explains why I couldn't find out more about the beta testers -- I needed to create an account and login first. I agree with all the posts here, but I don't blame the beta testers. It's chessable's baby. I wouldn't sign up to be editor for a course without a hefty paycheck on offer, it's a serious time commitment if done right. And I would never, ever sign up to be an editor but with a job title of beta tester. I had a cheap employer try that game once, and after the third time they "rescheduled" our discussion about it I simply walked. So I would say chessable is getting what they deserve from the "beta testers". If the customers want better then they should put the onus squarely on chessable.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #41 - 05/20/21 at 22:00:25
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Dfan and Roley-Poley are absolutely correct. Beta-Testers are tasked to ensure the final product is the best quality it can be, that includes among other things catching missing lines.

How can you have a course entitled 'Lifetime Repertoire' when so much is missing and yes I blame the 'Beta Testers' who post all kinds of exaggerated and sometimes desperate sounding resumes to get the job but from performance are only interested in course access. I also blame any staff who re-hire these guys after sub par performances.

Obviously no course will be totally free of omissions and errors, nevertheless Chessable LTR's aren't cheap so the quality needs to match the price tag, which means rigorous quality control by qualified and committed Beta Testers.

Postscript: Beta Testing as it relates to Chessable Courses involves not just technical matters, on the contrary, a good working  knowledge of the subject matter is essential that is why each opening course has it's own ad specifying these requirements. Maybe Beta Tester in this sense is a misnomer as the Role embodies many editorial tasks.
  

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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #40 - 05/20/21 at 21:48:13
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Oh that's an interesting standard. I am not going anywhere near chessable then. Even calling it beta testing is a form of deceptive marketing, in my view, because it's not beta and it's not even alpha. I was told by a friend he makes more money from chessable than he does/did from books, and now I can understand why.

Two quotes from https://www.guru99.com/alpha-beta-testing-demystified.html, I put some text in bold.

Quote:
Alpha testing is carried out by the testers who are internal employees of the organization. The main goal is to identify the tasks that a typical user might perform and test them.


Quote:
Beta Testing is performed by "real users" of the software application in "real environment" and it can be considered as a form of external User Acceptance Testing. It is the final test before shipping a product to the customers.


Any programmer who routinely delivered software to alpha testing with "possibly" missing features, but "hey, let me know", I think would be hunting for a new job soon. As for a software company delivering a product that isn't even finished, never mind alpha or beta tested, I won't be using them ever. And I include Microsoft under Satya Nadella in this category. (I do use MS at work but it's not my decision and it's not my dime.) No software is completely free of bugs, but that's not an excuse for lowering the standards down to the cellar.

Let's carry this to an absurd conclusion. Former world champion Garry Kasparov "1.d4 according to G.K.", with exactly one move in the repertoire: 1.d4. Anything missing, let me know and I will update the course. Worth it?
  
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #39 - 05/20/21 at 20:10:03
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dfan wrote on 05/20/21 at 19:22:28:
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 05/20/21 at 18:59:57:
There can be better beta testing and worse beta testing. But if a course has missing lines I don't understand how that has anything to do with beta testing. A beta tester should be making sure that links work, videos play, chapters are in order, simple stuff like that. The actual content should be up to the GM author, that's what they are getting paid for.

I am a software engineer, not a chess course author, but things like missing lines and unclear text are exactly the sort of things I would love for a beta tester to tell me about.


I was previously invited to beta test one of their courses a while back and the author specifically asked us to look out for unclear text and missing lines. I presumed that was expected from most if not all beta testers especially as most of them are much stronger than I and should therefore find it easier to spot gaps.

  

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dfan
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #38 - 05/20/21 at 19:22:28
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 05/20/21 at 18:59:57:
There can be better beta testing and worse beta testing. But if a course has missing lines I don't understand how that has anything to do with beta testing. A beta tester should be making sure that links work, videos play, chapters are in order, simple stuff like that. The actual content should be up to the GM author, that's what they are getting paid for.

I am a software engineer, not a chess course author, but things like missing lines and unclear text are exactly the sort of things I would love for a beta tester to tell me about.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #37 - 05/20/21 at 18:59:57
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TopNotch wrote on 05/20/21 at 17:35:04:
Beta Testing was obviously very poor.

There can be better beta testing and worse beta testing. But if a course has missing lines I don't understand how that has anything to do with beta testing. A beta tester should be making sure that links work, videos play, chapters are in order, simple stuff like that. The actual content should be up to the GM author, that's what they are getting paid for.

Maybe a chessable beta tester could chime in with what the expectations are. I searched on the chessable site and the only thing I saw was a requirement that they are not allowed to review courses. I couldn't even see a link for "Click here to become a beta tester".
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #36 - 05/20/21 at 17:35:04
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Keano wrote on 05/20/21 at 06:52:55:
Does he cover the old John Nunn suggestion 9.Be2!? in the Rauzer?


No this line is not considered in the Course, and it's just more evidence that this product seemed rushed out before it was ready. Beta Testing was obviously very poor.
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Keano
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #35 - 05/20/21 at 06:52:55
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Does he cover the old John Nunn suggestion 9.Be2!? in the Rauzer?
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #34 - 05/17/21 at 22:04:14
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doefmat wrote on 05/06/21 at 18:40:20:
Apparently, he also forget in the line 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bb5+ Bd7 4. Bxd7+ Nxd7
5. O-O Ngf6 6. Qe2 e6 to cover the main move 7.b3. Only 7.c3 and 7.d4 are covered.


He has now covered this and added a few other lines that were missing.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #33 - 05/11/21 at 16:51:23
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No doubt you are right, but I can't be bothered to verify. It's just a blitz game. The only reason to watch someone else play blitz is if there's an odd number and I don't have a game myself.
  
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Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #32 - 05/11/21 at 14:40:28
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FreeRepublic wrote on 05/11/21 at 12:42:46:
Did Shankland and his highly rated opponent repeatedly miss a skewer winning a rook in the video? After h5 White plays Rc8ch,  the black king moves, and Rxc3. If black then plays b2, threatening to queen, white plays Rb3 and nabs the pawn. Or if black plays Kb4 holding the pawn and attacking the rook, White can take the pawn, now or later, and still win the resulting pawn ending.

This can be found at 59:50 in the video. What am I missing?

Wow.
  
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