Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili (Read 4043 times)
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2898
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #60 - 05/27/21 at 14:55:40
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 05/25/21 at 22:45:11:
Regarding this 9. Be2, one recent publication (ECO-B2) basically has 9...b5 10. Nxc6 Bxc6 11. Qe3 as leading to an edge for White, and 9...h6 10. Bh4 Rc8 11. f4/9...Rc8 10. f4 h6 11. Bh4 as leading to equality. 

It doesn't mention 9...Be7, but addresses 9. f4 Be7 10. Be2, where among other things it cites the Fischer-Spassky game from '72.  As a bit of history you can see Robert Byrne's notes on p. 19 of the January 1973 Chess Life & Review.
http://uscf1-nyc1.aodhosting.com/CL-AND-CR-ALL/CL-ALL/1973/1973_01.pdf


In my old Beating the Sicilian book Nunn gave as a note that Blacks best was 9...h6 10. Bh4 Rc8, maybe that is why he later rejected the line. Still it needs attention.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4706
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #59 - 05/25/21 at 22:45:11
Post Tools
Regarding this 9. Be2, one recent publication (ECO-B2) basically has 9...b5 10. Nxc6 Bxc6 11. Qe3 as leading to an edge for White, and 9...h6 10. Bh4 Rc8 11. f4/9...Rc8 10. f4 h6 11. Bh4 as leading to equality. 

It doesn't mention 9...Be7, but addresses 9. f4 Be7 10. Be2, where among other things it cites the Fischer-Spassky game from '72.  As a bit of history you can see Robert Byrne's notes on p. 19 of the January 1973 Chess Life & Review.
http://uscf1-nyc1.aodhosting.com/CL-AND-CR-ALL/CL-ALL/1973/1973_01.pdf
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1235
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #58 - 05/25/21 at 22:06:00
Post Tools
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Bg5
  1. BTS : Nunn (1984) Beating the Sicilian
  2. BTS2 : Nunn (1990) Beating the Sicilian II
  3. BTS3 : Nunn/Gallagher (1995) Beating the Sicilian III

In the "most solid" line 6...e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.O-O-O O-O, Nunn consistently recommended 9.Nb3. In the line 6...e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.O-O-O Bd7, Nunn recommended 9.Be2 at first, but changed it later. In BTS2 he didn't say why the change, but in BTS he said:

Quote:
9.f4 is the usual move, but despite its lack of popularity 9.Be2 offers quite reasonable chances for white and has the advantage of setting a couple of really good traps.

6...e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.O-O-O Bd7

In the notes to Mnatsakanian - Banas, after 9.Be2 Be7 Nunn says "White may also try 10.f4" and this may indeed be a transposition to 9.f4 Be7 10.Be2...

I have no idea what current theory thinks of all this. I just hope we can all get on the same page about what line is being discussed.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2123
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #57 - 05/25/21 at 19:43:50
Post Tools
LeeRoth wrote on 05/24/21 at 18:08:52:
It's a good course.  The coverage of the Rauzer is excellent and makes use of Shankland's own games.  I've gone through most of 6.Bg5 and 6.Bc4, checked the lines with an engine and database, and feel I could play these lines at a decent level.  I'd recommend it.  Given the topic and the abbreviated coverage of some sidelines, I'd guess its probably best suited for 1700 on up. 

Its worth noting, as well, that a lot of the early criticism is no longer valid.  The missing lines have been added, although tbh, they weren't that critical anyway.  The missing video was never actually missing, just misplaced by the Chessable team.  That too has been corrected.  And BTW, 9.Be2 is covered, albeit by transposition. 


I think the early criticisms are still very valid, because it is less about merely fixing the errors and omissions after the fact, and more about the frustrated consumers that had to report the issues in the first place. Beta Testers tasked with reviewing Courses for quality control need do a better job or then don't apply to do it. Moreover, what do you mean the missing video wasn't really missing? It had to be later added to the Course after I reported it missing, the details as to how it went missing or was misplaced is irrelevant to the consumer.

Simply fixing errors and omissions after the fact while commendable doesn't do much for the authors reputation nor does it inspire overall confidence in the quality of the work he produces. If you bought an appliance and you discovered it had missing screws, would you fully trust the product or brand because you were later provided with those screws. Just something to ponder.

I have to say businesses would probably consider you the dream customer. Easy to please, willing to tolerate sloppiness, not bothered much by attention to detail or lack thereof and offers damage control services free of charge. Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2123
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #56 - 05/25/21 at 18:32:15
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 05/25/21 at 16:06:02:
LeeRoth wrote on 05/25/21 at 15:02:38:
9.Be2 Be7 10.f4 = 9.f4 Be7 10.Be2  Smiley




Thats not the same position at all, the Rauzer position is 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8.O-O-O Bd7 9. Be2


@Keano

Very annoying when they don't pay attention to the details isn't it. He would make a good Chessable Beta-Tester.  Roll Eyes
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2898
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #55 - 05/25/21 at 16:06:02
Post Tools
LeeRoth wrote on 05/25/21 at 15:02:38:
9.Be2 Be7 10.f4 = 9.f4 Be7 10.Be2  Smiley




Thats not the same position at all, the Rauzer position is 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8.O-O-O Bd7 9. Be2
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LeeRoth
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 1520
Joined: 10/22/05
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #54 - 05/25/21 at 15:02:38
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 05/25/21 at 09:19:50:
LeeRoth wrote on 05/24/21 at 18:08:52:
It's a good course.  The coverage of the Rauzer is excellent and makes use of Shankland's own games.  I've gone through most of 6.Bg5 and 6.Bc4, checked the lines with an engine and database, and feel I could play these lines at a decent level.  I'd recommend it.  Given the topic and the abbreviated coverage of some sidelines, I'd guess its probably best suited for 1700 on up. 

Its worth noting, as well, that a lot of the early criticism is no longer valid.  The missing lines have been added, although tbh, they weren't that critical anyway.  The missing video was never actually missing, just misplaced by the Chessable team.  That too has been corrected.  And BTW, 9.Be2 is covered, albeit by transposition. 

   


What transposition will result in that main-line Rauzer position?  Huh


9.Be2 Be7 10.f4 = 9.f4 Be7 10.Be2  Smiley





  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2898
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #53 - 05/25/21 at 09:19:50
Post Tools
LeeRoth wrote on 05/24/21 at 18:08:52:
It's a good course.  The coverage of the Rauzer is excellent and makes use of Shankland's own games.  I've gone through most of 6.Bg5 and 6.Bc4, checked the lines with an engine and database, and feel I could play these lines at a decent level.  I'd recommend it.  Given the topic and the abbreviated coverage of some sidelines, I'd guess its probably best suited for 1700 on up. 

Its worth noting, as well, that a lot of the early criticism is no longer valid.  The missing lines have been added, although tbh, they weren't that critical anyway.  The missing video was never actually missing, just misplaced by the Chessable team.  That too has been corrected.  And BTW, 9.Be2 is covered, albeit by transposition. 

   


What transposition will result in that main-line Rauzer position?  Huh
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LeeRoth
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 1520
Joined: 10/22/05
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #52 - 05/24/21 at 18:08:52
Post Tools
It's a good course.  The coverage of the Rauzer is excellent and makes use of Shankland's own games.  I've gone through most of 6.Bg5 and 6.Bc4, checked the lines with an engine and database, and feel I could play these lines at a decent level.  I'd recommend it.  Given the topic and the abbreviated coverage of some sidelines, I'd guess its probably best suited for 1700 on up. 

Its worth noting, as well, that a lot of the early criticism is no longer valid.  The missing lines have been added, although tbh, they weren't that critical anyway.  The missing video was never actually missing, just misplaced by the Chessable team.  That too has been corrected.  And BTW, 9.Be2 is covered, albeit by transposition. 

   



   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FreeRepublic
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 216
Location: Georgia
Joined: 06/08/17
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #51 - 05/22/21 at 16:54:42
Post Tools
NajdorfSlayer:

TopNotch wrote on 05/06/21 at 15:38:31:
So in summary I think if you are buying this course, then you will get decent coverage of 6 Bg5 ...

Topnotch:
That's pretty much all I was interested in anyway since as Sam says in the Intro, 6.Bg5 is the only challenging line to the Classical


The course may well be worth the money based the coverage of 6Bg5 alone. As I have not bought the course, I can not say for sure.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2898
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #50 - 05/22/21 at 14:27:10
Post Tools
Given the feedback, I will give this one a pass.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FreeRepublic
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 216
Location: Georgia
Joined: 06/08/17
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #49 - 05/22/21 at 12:06:01
Post Tools
TopNotch wrote on 05/21/21 at 14:40:16:
I hate the Move-Trainer but the material is the most up to date that there is out there. Also their best Opening Courses beat anything out there in print form hands down


As someone on this forum explained to me, one can click on the blue text and bypass the move trainer.

TopNotch wrote on 05/21/21 at 14:40:16:
Another high quality source is Modern-Chess.com, many titled players use their databases for tournament prep including GM's, at least that is what Boris Avrukh told me.


Avrukh has published 10 titles at Modern Chess.

The Modern Chess opening eBooks are up to date and often have a narrow focus. They also import well into ChessBase and Chess Opening Wizard. The Complete Rauzer Repertoire for Black (January 2019) by IM Ogulcan Kanmazalp is a must have for anyone who plays the Kozul (9...b5) variation.

I have maxed out on my free Short and Sweet Chessable eBooks. I will buy at some point. So far, I have to say that there is some good content, and it displays well on my computer screen. Is it all "in the cloud?" I am not aware of an option to download a title to my computer.

Our own beloved ChessPublishing has high quality content, displays well onscreen, and is up-to-date. The files download well to my computer. That is a major plus.

I have uploaded all past (CBV) files to ChessBase. All ECO B articles are available in one place. I can go through all Richter-Rauzer articles with 9...Be7, or 9...b5, sequentially. I did the same thing with PGN files and Chess Opening Wizard. So I can play out to any position of interest, and see the relevant ChessPublishing content. Either way, I can enter comments, or ask for engine analysis.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2123
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #48 - 05/21/21 at 14:40:16
Post Tools
hicetnunc wrote on 05/21/21 at 09:49:10:
Chessable beta testing is performed by unpaid volunteers. So they test what they want. Some do a diligent work, some just don't care. Some are strong enough to spot holes or missing explanations but most of them are amateur 1200 players who don't even know the opening they're testing.

At the end of the day, Chessable sells these courses because their platform attracts a lot of users. I'm surprised to hear from many players nowadays that their first point of reference is a chessable course rather than a good old book  Smiley


I hate the Move-Trainer but the material is the most up to date that there is out there. Also their best Opening Courses beat anything out there in print form hands down.

Another high quality source is Modern-Chess.com, many titled players use their databases for tournament prep including GM's, at least that is what Boris Avrukh told me.
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hicetnunc
Full Member
***
Offline


"Do something scary every
day"

Posts: 226
Location: Paris, France
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #47 - 05/21/21 at 09:49:10
Post Tools
Chessable beta testing is performed by unpaid volunteers. So they test what they want. Some do a diligent work, some just don't care. Some are strong enough to spot holes or missing explanations but most of them are amateur 1200 players who don't even know the opening they're testing.

At the end of the day, Chessable sells these courses because their platform attracts a lot of users. I'm surprised to hear from many players nowadays that their first point of reference is a chessable course rather than a good old book  Smiley
  

48 yo, 1920 elo
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2898
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Shankland Chessable course on the Classical Sicili
Reply #46 - 05/21/21 at 09:33:00
Post Tools
TopNotch wrote on 05/20/21 at 17:35:04:
No this line is not considered in the Course, and it's just more evidence that this product seemed rushed out before it was ready. Beta Testing was obviously very poor.


hmm, well its a very old recommendatiion, but still quite trappy so would have expected it to be covered. Was also tried out by Nigel Short I believe.

Maybe these modern guys just go with the latest fashion and forget the history
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo