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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Dragon 2 (Read 2621 times)
Pawnpusher
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #25 - 09/29/21 at 11:23:01
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I have noticed a speed increase also. It is testing to a higher elo than expected, Larry Kaufman (one of the authors) says it is really Dragon 3.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #24 - 09/28/21 at 19:56:56
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Playing some moves in Corr Chess I notice Dragon 2.5 its not only a bit faster than Dragon 2, it even reaches high plys about as fast as Stockfish 14.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #23 - 09/28/21 at 13:34:38
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I finnaly manged to download it. When I made a quick test I noticed its a bit faster.
  
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #22 - 09/28/21 at 11:30:42
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I had no problem, but the net is bigger.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #21 - 09/27/21 at 17:26:41
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I just noticed that an update, Dragon 2.5 was realised some days ago. According to its maker 60 elo stronger on 4 threads. But is seems to be impossible to download it, maybee they are out of bandwith?
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #20 - 06/10/21 at 08:56:44
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I can add one last thing. In two Correspondence chess games I can explain better the differences between engine types.

In one Correspondence Chess game Fat Fritz 2 saw a mate in 11 almost instantly while Dragon 2 did not see it proposing an other move that also would have won very easy but slower. But in one other Corr game Fat Fritz 2 was extremly slow(!) and thougt winning for me but did not see the move. Dragon 2 suggested an other move than Fat Fritz 2 and after I enterted the move Fat Fritz saw the strenth of the move evaluting as even better for my than its own suggestions.

Engines based an calculating long lines fast can spot forced mates or long tactical lines fast while other types of engines can discovered better positional moves.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #19 - 05/25/21 at 07:33:16
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I can explain the text its mostly a joke. Once upon it time it said Sicilian Dragon.

Nimzo Indian is more like a start position rather than an opening. Both sides can coose many setups and can sub systems where both gets intesting play.

The joke is based an
1. Most players play 3 Nf3 3 g3 or 3a thus black need a tag Team partner
2. Most club player who opens 1 d4 play some sort of dpawn special
3.  Even if a club player allows Nimzo the most common move is Bd2.
4. In my Correspondence Chess Nimzo is even rarer most of my Nimzo games are in Quuensgambit Nimzo hybrid Ragozin or some Bogo Indian games where white playes 4 Nc3.

EDIT
Updated my profile to a better text
  
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cathexis
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #18 - 05/24/21 at 21:41:13
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Since you believe, "Long live the Nimzo-Indian," have you ever tried running lines of it through Dragon 2 vs Stockfish? White's choices for move four can lead you deep into the rabbit hole whether you play white or black.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #17 - 05/24/21 at 19:51:07
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I chatted a bit with a friend who has experience of Komodo and he said its based on with rather than speed and understanding rather than long likes like Stockfish. Probebly Dragon 2 used same approach.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #16 - 05/24/21 at 17:51:10
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I am not an engine expert or engine developer but from what I have read there are several approaches to create engines.

Each and every engine (and clones) has unique way to store the board interal , an unique way to suggest candiate moves and unique way to evaluate the position.

Some engines undertands that a move is good based on evaluations at large depth. Some engines understands that a move is good by evaluating the current position by more parameters  thus trusting its own assesment more and som engine does a more broad search thus impossible to get high depth. Both appaches has strengths and weaknesses, if not looking to deep best move may be missed or looking to deep horizon effect can acour and missing good replyes on the way.

The different approaches leads to different strengt,  in very tactical position I would prefere a higher depth based engine while in imbalanced or more postional position maybee an other type.
« Last Edit: 05/24/21 at 18:52:48 by bragesjo »  
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cathexis
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #15 - 05/24/21 at 12:22:59
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I want to ask a little more about what you mean by "more based on positional understanding"? I'm not trying to nitpick you, just understand better. I also understand that some of this may be more intuitive on your part. Mainly, do you yourself gain greater positional understanding from Dragon's moves? Or do you feel those moves reflect a greater positional understanding by Dragon? How do you tell the difference and what benefit do you gain from it?

I'm asking anyone who cares to reply.
  
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #14 - 05/24/21 at 11:03:17
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I think that is mostly the gist of the idea.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #13 - 05/23/21 at 13:55:40
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Since I never used Komodo before or Dragon either I became intested to see how it works so I bought Dragon 2 from developers directly. Not that I need it more of curiosety.

The engine seems to use a different approach than Stockfish. Stockfish strengh is reaching high depts fast while Dragon 2, and I assume Komodo,  the strengt is more based on positional understanding.
  
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #12 - 05/21/21 at 11:51:10
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OK, thanks people!
  
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Re: Dragon 2
Reply #11 - 05/21/21 at 10:18:44
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I frequently use LcO and Stockfish to analyze, like Magnus says LcO is more understandable. But it is easy to use two engines concurrently.
  
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