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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Scandinavian for Club Players (Read 7415 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #38 - 08/06/21 at 20:32:55
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 08/06/21 at 02:22:08:
I have called it the Scandinavian Defense, in recognition of those analytical contributions.


Thanks for the posting the historical research. Scandinavian it is then.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #37 - 08/06/21 at 02:22:08
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Center Counter is the old (1800s) name, Scandinavian is the new (1900s) name. Lutes always prefaced his openings books with some historical material, so for example his McCutcheon book covers early history of the French, his O'Kelly book covers early history of the Sicilian, etc.

Quoting from W. John Lutes Scandinavian Defense: Anderssen Counter Attack (1992, 2nd edition) :

Quote:
  Jaenisch was also the first author to style the opening as the "Counter Center Gambit," or as he called it: "du début des pion du centre, improprement appelé 'Contre-Gambit du Centre.'"
-- page 5, referring to Jaenisch Analyse nouvelle des ouvertures du jeu des échecs (1842-1843)

Hmm, Jaenisch seems to be saying it is "improperly" called that, therefore someone else was calling it that before him. Anyway, pressing on ...

Quote:
  The entire defense, in all its ramifications, was repeatedly played and analyzed by Gustaf Nyholm, Gustaf Collijn, Ludvig Collijn, Fritz Englund, Karl Berndtsson, and Erhard Björklund, as well as many others. These Scandinavian masters completely reshaped the defense into an exciting and interesting asymmetrical opening. Their monumental analysis appeared in the Lärobok i Schack, in 1912, and again in 1921, as the "Dambonde mot Kungsbonde."
  In honor of their work, the defense acquired its European denomination of the "Scandinavian Defense." The new name first appeared in the 1916 edition of the German Handbuch des Schachspiels (p. 820); where Carl Schlechter says of it that "... this opening under the name of the 'Queen's Pawn versus King's Pawn' had, for a long time, been considered inferior play, as after 2.ed Qxd5, White gains a move by developing his Knight and attacking the Queen. Thorough analysis by Northern amateurs has, however, since established its playability and soundness."
-- page 9


Despite having learned the name as the Center Counter from some old books, for a long time now I have called it the Scandinavian Defense, in recognition of those analytical contributions. I think old chessplayers deserve to be remembered.
  
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Sandman
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #36 - 08/06/21 at 01:23:53
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FreeRepublic wrote on 06/26/21 at 19:04:15:
I first heard the opening referred to as the "Center counter game," which I find to be descriptive. However it seems that the chess community has agreed to the term "Scandinavian Defense." That is fine with me, especially if it has some sensible basis.



I have always thought of the center counter as Qxd5 and the Scandinavian as Nf6.   Undecided
  

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mn
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #35 - 07/10/21 at 12:32:53
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There's a new course on chessable that recommends this line for Black as well. It also covers the same five moves mentioned by MW above.
  
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Dzambus
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #34 - 07/07/21 at 07:07:28
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That's kind of him, I will look for that source Smiley
  
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MW
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #33 - 07/07/21 at 05:38:50
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Hi Dzambus,
Play the Scandinavian by GM Lorenzini from Modern Chess covers,
10 d5, 10 0-0, 10 Qe2, 10 Nh4 and 10 b3 after the move sequence you mention.

  
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bragesjo
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #32 - 07/06/21 at 14:06:51
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The book has some other unmentioned moves in a couple of other places as well.

I can not give exact details since I got inspired and tried it in a few Correspodence Chess games, probebly not a good idea but I got good positions in many blitz and rapid games so I gave it a try and I  met some unmentioned replys. Still I am not unhappy about my positions, some lines are realy tricky to evaluate even for computers but I will probebly play Sicilian in coming events.
  
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Dzambus
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #31 - 07/05/21 at 19:35:40
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For example, already in the first chapter

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bf5 6.Bc4 e6 7.Bd2 Bb4 8.a3 Bxc3  9.Bxc3 Qb6

and in this position author  gives  no single word about considerable move 10. Qe2 ,

the book only takes 10.d5 and 10. 0-0
« Last Edit: 07/05/21 at 23:05:29 by Dzambus »  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #30 - 06/28/21 at 13:31:59
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Amending my own reply #15, I found another case where I want a particular side on the bottom. So to reiterate 1 and 2, adding 3:
  1. When I'm following a book, I want the software diagrams to match the book diagrams.
  2. When I'm playing blindfold against the engine ("blindfold mode" but technically not blindfold since the board is visible) then I want my side at the bottom, because that's how I'm visualizing it.
  3. When I am entering a game I played into the database, "then" is the same as #2.

I thought a good adjective to describe MNb's post, and general style, would be "brusque". There are many styles of communicating, some we like better than others. Since I can be terse to the point of incomprehensibility (or alternatively verbose to the point where I bore even myself), I don't mind brusque. But of course others may be driven crazy by my style, as well as not liking brusqueness. To each their own.

Stigma is right that the topic is going nowhere. But since when is that a standard for whether to have a discussion? People talk politics and religion endlessly and rarely get anywhere. It's a discussion board, let's discuss. If it seems fruitless, just ignore it.

I agree it's off topic. The diagrams deserved a thread of its own.
  
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #29 - 06/28/21 at 00:00:38
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Bibs wrote on 06/26/21 at 15:16:20:
Is it possible MnB to avoid being so consistently belligerent in your posts?
One can disagree without being rude. Agree?
In bygone years you didn’t used to be so belligerent hereabouts.

While I've seen some "belligerent" posts from MNb over the years, I don't think this one was over the line.

Discussions of this kind of thing (White, side-to-move or side-we're-playing at bottom?) tend to go nowhere and end up being just personal preference or really habit. So it's understandable to be eager to get that out of the way quickly and get back to discussing the actual chess.
« Last Edit: 06/28/21 at 01:43:26 by Stigma »  

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FreeRepublic
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #28 - 06/26/21 at 19:04:15
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I first heard the opening referred to as the "Center counter game," which I find to be descriptive. However it seems that the chess community has agreed to the term "Scandinavian Defense." That is fine with me, especially if it has some sensible basis.

I use algebraic notation, though see merit in English descriptive notation. Once again the chess community has set a standard, which I accept. However, I will not condemn the eccentric who chooses another path. Perhaps the investment community leads the way in celebrating the "contrarian." That is because their own money is at stake, and they score that higher than ego or conformity.

In an electronic environment, I prefer that the color that I am playing (or considering playing) to be on the bottom. That does not work with print. For print, I think it makes sense to go with the standard of white side down (even when I intend to play black).

In my opinion, both the Scandinavian and the Alekhine are pesky openings. While probably not as good as several other openings, they do benefit from being underestimated (or at least understudied). It appears that the Scandinavian is not under-published (perhaps the opposite). It is also fairly popular at club level.

I just don't think the Scandinavian ranks with double-king pawn, Sicilian, French, Caro Kan, or even Pirc. I admit this is a prejudice. Objective measures one could consider are scoring percentage, and frequency of play (in total and by rating levels).
  
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MNb
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #27 - 06/26/21 at 16:50:35
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Apparently every honest answer by me to your questions will be considered as rude and belligerent by you.
I neither agree nor disagree with anything you wrote in your last few comments, including your judgment that I'm rude.
Unfortunately now I'm doing the same as you: not talking about the topic of this thread, ie the Scandinavian.
So I lose to you no matter how.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Bibs
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #26 - 06/26/21 at 15:16:20
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Is it possible MnB to avoid being so consistently belligerent in your posts?
One can disagree without being rude. Agree?
In bygone years you didn’t used to be so belligerent hereabouts.

  
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MNb
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #25 - 06/26/21 at 06:08:10
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Bibs wrote on 06/25/21 at 23:52:02:
For those who profess to go all in with white at the bottom, one wonders if they flip or not when using online books? Do you?

I don't. Because I don't care. I don't care about descriptive notation either or about Trans-Patagonian symbols for pieces.
There are many far more interesting topics to get worked up about. Like: could the Scandinavian with Qa5 and Bg4 made playable for Club Players (ie: White's advantage remains acceptable, while Black keeps winning chances)?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Bibs
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #24 - 06/25/21 at 23:52:02
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Yes, exactly. What does one see playing online?
What does one see OTB?

That please.

Happily with online publishing, one can now choose. All punters can be happy, either way. Everyone - shiny, happy people.

For those who profess to go all in with white at the bottom, one wonders if they flip or not when using online books? Do you?
  
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