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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Scandinavian for Club Players (Read 9059 times)
RoleyPoley
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #53 - 09/06/21 at 21:06:12
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I got a copy of this book today and am really impressed. I don't usually like the layout in NIC titles but this one looks nice.

I've only read the introduction and part of the 1st chapter so far but this has lots of clear verbal explanations of plans for both sides (repertoire is for the black player, so the plans are what white is trying to do and why, and for black how to counter them). An intro to the chapter setting out what is to follow, and a summary at the end. Illustrative games and a flashcard section showing key positions/moves. I wish most books had similar layouts.

Reminded me of one of my all time favourite books - Ward's Winning with the Dragon with its quality of writing. I'll probably have a look at getting the author's earlier book (chess toolbox?) if it is as good as this one.

  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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bragesjo
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #52 - 08/19/21 at 17:15:49
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I can give a bit back story about Sweden and Scandinavia. Something called Scandinavism exists it Sweden and was very popular before WW2. Swedens national song reflects this is not even a song about Sweden but a song about the old free Scandinavian region.

2 parts of the song is learned at schools but at universitys I learned that there are two additional parts, only there Sweden is mentioned, but they are a bit patriatical thus never teached. You would not even belive if I told you that one is more or less called racist if one celebrates Swedens nationalday and Sweden has an extremly political correct media (but we discuss Chess here not politics).

  
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #51 - 08/17/21 at 22:18:02
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I don't really have an opinion on whether Scandinavian Defense should perhaps have been Swedish Defense. One good indicator would be whether the Scandinavian countries, especially Sweden, also used the Scandinavian name. Not being sure of the correct date range to use, I rather arbitrarily selected 1900 - 1912 and searched database.chessbase.com (8 million games). Sweden has more games than the other "Scandinavian" countries combined. Caveats: small sample, only games not analyses, potentially unreliable country designations. Fritz Englund of Sweden has 5 games, so that might skew the numbers a bit.
  • 75 - ENG
  • 34 - USA
  • 28 - GER
  • 16 - FRA
  • 15 - SWE
  • 14 - AUT
  • 9 - HUN
  • 7 - CSR
  • 7 - URS
  • 6 - CZE
  • 6 - POL
  • 5 - NZL
  • 4 - AUS
  • 4 - NED
  • 4 - NOR
  • 3 - FIN
  • 2 - IRL
  • 1 - CUB
  • 1 - DEN
  • 1 - RUS
  • 1 - SUI
  • 10 - null

Top players:
  • 45 - Mieses, Jacques (ENG)
  • 9 - Tartakower, Saviely (FRA)
  • 8 - Lee, Francis J (ENG)
  • 7 - Spielmann, Rudolf (AUT)
  • 6 - Duras, Oldrich (CZE)
  • 5 - five players (GER, SWE, USA, USA, USA)
  • 4 - six players (AUT, CSR, ENG, ENG, GER, USA)
  
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bragesjo
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #50 - 08/17/21 at 14:28:57
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There are worse ommisions in other places.I met Qe2 myself and after 00 white usually play 000 ehen I belive Rad8 is strong

However I belive that the book is a good complement to ModernChess database since the bases sometimes does not cover lines in the book and the opposete.
  
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #49 - 08/17/21 at 10:39:54
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Dzambus wrote on 07/05/21 at 19:35:40:
For example, already in the first chapter

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bf5 6.Bc4 e6 7.Bd2 Bb4 8.a3 Bxc3  9.Bxc3 Qb6

and in this position author  gives  no single word about considerable move 10. Qe2 ,

the book only takes 10.d5 and 10. 0-0


In this line, I was surprised that 8.Qe2 didn't get a mention either. 8...c6 would transpose to the main lines given in some other books, 8...O-O seems reasonable, and 8...Bxc7 is one of the greedy options which Willemze warns against in other lines.
  
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #48 - 08/10/21 at 16:52:46
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Stigma wrote on 08/10/21 at 13:59:21:
Pawnpusher wrote on 08/10/21 at 11:29:29:
Scandinavia does vary, Finland was a part of Sweden for a couple of centuries give or take.

More like 500 years or more until 1809, if I can trust Wikipedia on this.

If Schlechter publicized the name Skandinavische Verteidigung in 1916, the Grand Duchy of Finland was a part of the Russian Empire at that point, albeit a fairly autonomous part. But the events of 1917 would soon upend that and lead to a fully independent Finland.


Its correct that Finland was part of Sweden untill that date during Napoleon wars. The defence of Finland was based on a large fortress called Sveaborg. The commander hated the King so he gave up without fight. The fortress was virtualy unbrechable and had food, manpower and cannons to have survived more than 3 years of siege and half of Swedens fleet was stationed there as well so the King was fired after this lose.

After random forms a French Fieldmarshal, with good repetition in Sweden and one of my ancestors , became elected as crownprince with idea of retaking Finland but he did the opposete and conqered Norway from Danmark instead, even thougt is became a Union that eventuellt broke when Norway wanted independent and in did not even lead to any war.

Sweden has not had a single war since Norway campaign. Norway and Denmark had been the same kingdom for even longer time.
  
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #47 - 08/10/21 at 13:59:21
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Pawnpusher wrote on 08/10/21 at 11:29:29:
Scandinavia does vary, Finland was a part of Sweden for a couple of centuries give or take.

More like 500 years or more until 1809, if I can trust Wikipedia on this.

If Schlechter publicized the name Skandinavische Verteidigung in 1916, the Grand Duchy of Finland was a part of the Russian Empire at that point, albeit a fairly autonomous part. But the events of 1917 would soon upend that and lead to a fully independent Finland.

Edit: The point of mentioning the above was of course to question whether a bit of Finnish involvement should have been enough to prefer the name "Scandinavian" to "Swedish" for the defense in 1916. I think the fact that Finland was still Russian at that point weakens the case for "Scandinavian". As does Erhard Björklund's "Swedishness" probably, depending on how deep it ran.
« Last Edit: 08/10/21 at 17:17:32 by Stigma »  

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bragesjo
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #46 - 08/10/21 at 12:47:16
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Stigma wrote on 08/09/21 at 23:27:17:
The Modern Malmö variation sounds interesting, actually! Maybe a good surprise weapon, at the very least. Do you know of any published analysis on it?


I can tell the full story about it. A now dead Swedish ameutur with about 2000-2100 elo, Per Sörenfors,  played "Old Malmö varianten" and sponsered a thematical tournamnet in hes hometown  Malmö called Pinova Open. Even some GM played in the event. Every participator got a small paper with lines he thought was best but nobody followed them at all. He wrote a booklet called "Malmö varianten", I think I even got 2nd edition where some games was removed and more theory was added or adjusted. Some years later he realised a compelte 1 e4 booklet called "Guldgruvan 1", and there he introduced "Morderna Malmö varianten" with 2 Nc3 Nf6 inserted. There was supposted to be "Guldgruvan 2" as well but it was never realised.

I belive form member Taljechin nows more about it.
  
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #45 - 08/10/21 at 11:29:29
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Scandinavia does vary, Finland was a part of Sweden for a couple of centuries give or take.
  
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Stigma
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #44 - 08/09/21 at 23:42:40
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 08/08/21 at 02:26:24:
According to Lutes (pages 23, 69, and 82), Erhard A. Björklund was from Finland. I suppose a database search could show whether the "Scandinavian" was played primarily by Swedish players. I am on vacation without any database so I can't do that search at the moment. It's fairly random that I have Lutes with me.  Smiley

Ah. Mr. Björklund fooled me with his very Swedish last name. I wonder if he (or more likely an ancestor) was an ethnic Swede who moved to the "Eastern Land" or an ethnic Finn who took a Swedish name? The first name Erhard is surely German, which muddles things even more.

To be a bit pedantic, Finland is not really a part of Scandinavia proper. But the definition of "Scandinavia" varies by time and place, and I don't know what exactly the Handbuch editors/writers meant by it.

I will find time for a database search of early Scandinavian Defense games tomorrow.
  

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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #43 - 08/09/21 at 23:27:17
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bragesjo wrote on 08/07/21 at 09:46:03:
CoolActually when I think about it "Swedish Defence" exist, its some line in Tarrasch Queens gambit played by Ståhlberg,  Lundin and Stoltz.

The Swedish Tarrasch line is a very early ...c5-c4, right? Not sure about the exact move number. But I have seen it called the "Swedish Variation", so there should still have been room for a "Swedish Defense" too! After all, Norway has both the dubious Norwegian variation in the Ruy Lopez and the dubious North Sea Defense, AKA the Norwegian Rat!  Cheesy

And anyway, I believe Ståhlberg, Lundin and Stoltz are somewhat later players than the ones who analyzed 1.e4 d5 in the Lärobok. Probably there was no Swedish variation of the Tarrasch Queen's Gambit yet back in 1912.

bragesjo wrote on 08/07/21 at 09:46:03:
Then there is Gothenburg variation in Najdorf and Stockholm attack in Dragon.

It also exist "Malmö variation" in Sweden, it is like Scandinavian Defence reversed with a extra tempo. 1 e4 e5 2 d4 exd4 3 Qxd4 Nc6 4 Qa4. Its called "Modern Malmö variation" when 2 Nc3 Nf6 are inserted. The modern version is probebly better since the best lines does no involved quick Nf6 setups.

That's true, Sweden has gotten some credit through its cities.

The Modern Malmö variation sounds interesting, actually! Maybe a good surprise weapon, at the very least. Do you know of any published analysis on it?
« Last Edit: 08/10/21 at 01:16:50 by Stigma »  

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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #42 - 08/08/21 at 02:26:24
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According to Lutes (pages 23, 69, and 82), Erhard A. Björklund was from Finland. I suppose a database search could show whether the "Scandinavian" was played primarily by Swedish players. I am on vacation without any database so I can't do that search at the moment. It's fairly random that I have Lutes with me.  Smiley
  
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bragesjo
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #41 - 08/07/21 at 09:46:03
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CoolActually when I think about it "Swedish Defence" exist, its some line in Tarrasch Queens gambit played by Ståhlberg,  Lundin and Stoltz.

Then there is Gothenburg variation in Najdorf and Stockholm attack in Dragon.

It also exist "Malmö variation" in Sweden, it is like Scandinavian Defence reversed with a extra tempo. 1 e4 e5 2 d4 exd4 3 Qxd4 Nc6 4 Qa4. Its called "Modern Malmö variation" when 2 Nc3 Nf6 are inserted. The modern version is probebly better since the best lines does no involved quick Nf6 setups.
« Last Edit: 08/07/21 at 13:09:07 by bragesjo »  
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #40 - 08/07/21 at 09:41:46
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Things are even more stupid. There is an opening called Danisch Gambit  and a Chess book called Danisch Dynamite.  Many Swedes helped analys the opening and its called "Nordisk Gambit" (Nordic Gambit) in Sweden and Dynamite was invented by the Swede Alfred Nobel.
  
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Re: The Scandinavian for Club Players
Reply #39 - 08/07/21 at 04:47:12
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 08/06/21 at 02:22:08:
Quote:
  The entire defense, in all its ramifications, was repeatedly played and analyzed by Gustaf Nyholm, Gustaf Collijn, Ludvig Collijn, Fritz Englund, Karl Berndtsson, and Erhard Björklund, as well as many others. These Scandinavian masters completely reshaped the defense into an exciting and interesting asymmetrical opening. Their monumental analysis appeared in the Lärobok i Schack, in 1912, and again in 1921, as the "Dambonde mot Kungsbonde."
  In honor of their work, the defense acquired its European denomination of the "Scandinavian Defense." The new name first appeared in the 1916 edition of the German Handbuch des Schachspiels (p. 820); where Carl Schlechter says of it that "... this opening under the name of the 'Queen's Pawn versus King's Pawn' had, for a long time, been considered inferior play, as after 2.ed Qxd5, White gains a move by developing his Knight and attacking the Queen. Thorough analysis by Northern amateurs has, however, since established its playability and soundness."
-- page 9


Thanks for the history lesson!

There's one curious thing about that list of players and analysts though: They seem to all be not just Scandinavian or "Northern", but specifically Swedish. Lärobok i Schack is also a Swedish-language book. So why wasn't the opening simply named the Swedish Defense? AFAIK there's no other defense with that name. Why did Schlechter and/or the Handbuch bring all of Scandinavia into it?

I can think of two explanations off the top of my head. Firstly, there may have been some Danes and/or Norwegians who contributed to the defense's development but were so little-known their names were forgotten or thought not worth mentioning.

The more sinister theory is German-language authors or editors involved with the Handbuch still harbored some resentment for Swedish campaigns and possessions in what is now modern Germany in centuries past, and didn't want to give Sweden any more credit than absolutely necessary.
  

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