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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess (Read 7107 times)
bragesjo
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #35 - 12/16/21 at 15:40:29
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Sorry made a typo of course not 12...

Edit: the moderator repaired it.

« Last Edit: 12/16/21 at 17:18:37 by MNb »  
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XChess1971
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #34 - 12/16/21 at 11:56:22
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I played that OTB too. Originally the move 15...hxg4 is known from the game Karpov-Sznapik, Dubai (ol) 1986 where Karpov crushed his rival. The move 15...a5 was first played in Anatoly Karpov vs Kiril Georgiev, Dubai Olympiad (1986). Karpov drew that game. Bragesjo I do not understand on what position you mean 12...Nc4. I guess you mean 21...Nc4 in your game right?

My game was like this....

[Event "Marshall Chess Club G/60"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2004.06.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Paciulli, Frank"]
[Black "Moreno, Alberto"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B78"]
[PlyCount "62"]
[EventDate "2016.12.04"]
[Source "Chess Informant"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 Nc6 8. Qd2
O-O 9. Bc4 Bd7 10. O-O-O Rc8 11. Bb3 Ne5 12. h4 h5 13. Bg5 Rc5 14. Kb1 b5 15.
g4 a5 16. gxh5 a4 17. Bd5 b4 18. Nce2 Nxd5 19. exd5 Rxd5 20. Qxb4 Qc7 21. Nc3
Rc5 22. Ne4 Rb8 23. Qe1 Nxf3 24. Qe3 Nxd4 25. Rxd4 Rxc2 26. b3 axb3 27. Nf6+
exf6 28. h6 Bf5 29. Re4 Bxe4 30. h7+ Kxh7 31. h5 bxa2+ 0-1
« Last Edit: 12/17/21 at 02:41:37 by XChess1971 »  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #33 - 12/15/21 at 08:09:13
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I appears that the game Imentioned is viewable to the public. It will not post the game but can show a link. https://www.iccf.com/game?id=1241082

My idea was to play Kalachnikov or Dragon depending on whites reply. I got several draws in several Kalchnikov games, no loses or wins, but I like to experiement in in openings and tried Scandinavian in a few games as well mosly draws and a few loses and a single win. I find Scandinvian good in over the board but not that good in Corr.

I will return to Kalchnikov/Accelereted Dragon combo again in the future but I will not join in any new events unbntill next year, I want to complete many games before joining any new event.
Also black does not have to transpose to Dragon proper. It is possible to take advantage of the move order and play other safer options instead of entering Bc4 Yugoslav attack.

Jones book wanted to play 15 .. hxg4 where Marin base showed that the line is better for white.

My new move was 21 .. Nc4, engines top choice, while Marin mention several other moves in hes base.
About final position, is a easy draw with access to computer with table bases.
« Last Edit: 12/16/21 at 17:18:00 by MNb »  
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MNb
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #32 - 12/09/21 at 13:31:36
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TonyRo wrote on 12/09/21 at 13:17:50:
and it's kind of a bummer how hard the 12.Kb1 lines are for Black.

One of the plus sides of combining the Kalashnikov with the Accelerated Dragon is exactly avoiding this: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3!? ("Ah yes, the bane of all Kalashnikov players."  Wink ) g6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Bb3 d6 9.f3 Bd7 10.Qd2 and now either the Chinese Dragon or the Forintos. 10.h4 h5 becomes the Soltis.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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TonyRo
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #31 - 12/09/21 at 13:17:50
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I have been looking over the Dragon quite a bit in the last few days, mostly just for fun, possibly for a YouTube video, and it's kind of a bummer how hard the 12.Kb1 lines are for Black. Seems to me the current state is that 12...Nc4 is practically refuted now, and 12...Re8 and 12...a6 might draw with flawless play but would both be fairly uncomfortable OTB. The Topalov and Giri lines are obviously good and easier to play, but for a long time all I did was crush people in the Soltis and I miss that!  Grin Cheesy Wink
  
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XChess1971
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #30 - 12/08/21 at 23:39:00
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bragesjo wrote on 12/07/21 at 13:30:37:
Game became draw but my improvent line is inpractical in over the board play but easy draw in Correspondence Chess if one has tablebases. I dont know if I can post any concrete moves either untill the event is complete.

I do not think that if would hurt just to post the line and your ideas. Do not post the whole game to avoid complaints.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #29 - 12/07/21 at 13:30:37
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Game became draw but my improvent line is inpractical in over the board play but easy draw in Correspondence Chess if one has tablebases. I dont know if I can post any concrete moves either untill the event is complete.
  
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XChess1971
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #28 - 10/25/21 at 11:50:36
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bragesjo wrote on 10/25/21 at 10:51:46:
To get the good coverage about Topalov variation I recommend
Diamantling the Sicilian latest edition. The book is a white repertoar  but has a chapter "What others recommend and why O disagree". He rejected Bc4 Yugoslav for white becose of Topalov variation where he found improvents for black.

The line I talked about is actuelly  in Soltis variation and I diverted from Marin a bit further in since both Stockfish 14 and Dragon 2 5.1 found a as I belive better move further in that leads to a drawn endgame. I will post the move here if it holds but I can not give  further details right now. In Correspondence Chess one can never take book moves for granted.


You can never trust a book. Even previous computer analysis done by someone. The strength of the computers and programs have improved so much that what it could have been good before is no longer good today. That's why you have to do your own homework!
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #27 - 10/25/21 at 10:57:30
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I have by the way tried Lichess Correspondence Chess by accident. Different rules. Opening books allowed engines not. Also faster tempo.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #26 - 10/25/21 at 10:51:46
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To get the good coverage about Topalov variation I recommend
Diamantling the Sicilian latest edition. The book is a white repertoar  but has a chapter "What others recommend and why O disagree". He rejected Bc4 Yugoslav for white becose of Topalov variation where he found improvents for black.

The line I talked about is actuelly  in Soltis variation and I diverted from Marin a bit further in since both Stockfish 14 and Dragon 2 5.1 found a as I belive better move further in that leads to a drawn endgame. I will post the move here if it holds but I can not give  further details right now. In Correspondence Chess one can never take book moves for granted.
  
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #25 - 10/25/21 at 09:20:20
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I stopped a few months ago playing this 9.Bc4 line because of the recommendation of Anish Giri: 9...Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Be6.
https://www.chessable.com/lifetime-repertoires-dragon-sicilian/course/69959/
I couldn't find anything interesting worth a try for a next game. Did you check that?
  
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XChess1971
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #24 - 10/25/21 at 03:44:24
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bragesjo wrote on 10/03/21 at 08:56:05:
A small comment. I am playing a Dragon game in Correspondence Chess. I  met a line in Bc4 yugoslav where Marin played a different move than Jones book. Marin showed why the line was better for white and computer agreed so I played Marin move instead , and best move accordiing to all engines. I can not give more details since games are secrret to publc according to tournament rules.


I wonder if it is.......

l.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6 . Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9 .Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 b5 13.Nd5 Nxd5 14.Bxg7 Kxg7 15.exd5 a5 16.a3 Kg8 17.Rhe1 Rc5 18.Re3 and here......

Jones only mentions 18...b4 while Marin mentions 18...b4 as an alternative, but considers 18...Qa8 a main line.

I have not had time to deepen into all of this. But I'm guessing that this is it.
« Last Edit: 10/25/21 at 12:00:03 by XChess1971 »  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #23 - 10/03/21 at 08:56:05
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A small comment. I am playing a Dragon game in Correspondence Chess. I  met a line in Bc4 yugoslav where Marin played a different move than Jones book. Marin showed why the line was better for white and computer agreed so I played Marin move instead , and best move accordiing to all engines. I can not give more details since games are secrret to publc according to tournament rules.
  
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #22 - 07/25/21 at 16:40:36
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bragesjo wrote on 07/25/21 at 07:15:08:
Didnt some other recent author also go for e5?


Giri
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Dragon repertoar by Marin from ModernChess
Reply #21 - 07/25/21 at 07:15:08
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I think we can start with 12 Bd4 e5 in 9 000 line.

When I was new to the Dragon I played it myself since Gufeld recommended the move. It was random that I even played Dragon at all my first opening book,  Opening repertoire for Attacking player. However at elite level first Nxc3 and after that Bxd4 become more popular. Its certainly the most combatable move. I thougt it was good for white. In one of Marins mainlines it leads to a endgame he says black can draw. Didnt some other recent author also go for e5?
« Last Edit: 07/25/21 at 10:33:21 by MNb »  
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