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Normal Topic Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna (Read 1285 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna
Reply #7 - 06/03/22 at 14:50:15
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CanadianClub wrote on 06/03/22 at 08:26:06:
there is another free source with these lines:

Free is always good!

I had no intention of memorizing the long line that I provided. I simply want to get a sense of the kind of play that ensues. Also I want to know if a line is good or bad.

It seems my thinking changes with every analysis session. Looking again, after:
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Bb4!? 5. Bg5 dxc4 6. e4! c5!? 7. Bxc4 cxd4 8. Nxd4 Bxc3+ 9. bxc3 Qa5 10. Bb5+ Bd7 11. Bxf6 gxf6 12. Bxd7+ Nxd7 13. O-O O-O-O 14. Rb1 Ne5, I see that white can press with 15. Qc1!? intending Qf4 or Qh6. Not case closed, but certainly something to consider.

As mentioned before, Black usually plays 13...a6. Then 14. Rb1 Qc7. Panczyk and Ilczuk, Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna, cover seven 15th moves for white. The two major moves are 15Qh5 and 15Qd2. They are somewhat pessimistic about Black's chances following 15Qd2. However I think Black can improve. If not, there are many opportunities to vary play earlier.
  
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Re: Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna
Reply #6 - 06/03/22 at 08:26:06
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FreeRepublic wrote on 06/02/22 at 22:23:50:
I've been analyzing the Vienna/Ragozin complex from the black side recently. The search for something simple and easy still eludes me. Maybe I have the wrong opening!

The lines are complicated. The historic main mainline features doubled f pawns for black similar to many lines of the Richter-Rauzer Sicilian. It's kind of hard for black to play that in either opening, but there can be rewards.

GM Tan analyzes the game Lagrave-Aronian in his latest article for ChessPublishing. Lagrave goes for a sideline. It is very hard to take Aronian by surprise in this opening, which he has played many times. Lagrave resigned after Aronian's 25th move.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. Bg5 dxc4 6. e4 c5 7. Bxc4 cxd4

"7... h6 8. Bxf6 Qxf6 has been the modern interpretation of the line. There is nothing wrong with the old main line, but perhaps it requires more brute force memorisation," GM Tan. 7...h6 is recommended by GM Kuljasevic as a second line in his Ragozin repertoire at Modern-Chess.

8. Nxd4 Bxc3+ 9. bxc3 Qa5 10. Bb5+

White also has 10.Nb5 and 10Bxf6, but 10Bb5ch is the main line and I think it is the most dangerous. Pert pretty much neutralizes Bb5ch with 8...Qa5. However, white can answer 8...Qa5 with 9Bd2, also leading to interesting play.

At this point, Lagrave-Aronian continue with the main move 10...Nbd7. I prefer to play a known alternative 10...Bd7

10...Bd7 11. Bxf6 gxf6

An earlier ChessPub article states: "Usually White prefers to develop his queen first by 12Qb3 and so on."

12. Bxd7+

"This simple approach is not very popular but perhaps it's a bit underestimated."

12...Nxd7 13. O-O

Black has tried many moves. However, 13...a6 is clearly the main move. As far as I know 13...0-0-0 has only been played in one game. Pechac-Pacher are two strong Slovakian players and their 2019 game ended in a draw.

13...O-O-O 14. Rb1 Ne5 (14...a6 was played). The game remains complicated and can proceed in various directions. Here is one long sample line:

15. Rb4 (15Rb5 Qxb5 =) Rd6 16. Qh5 a6 17. Qh4 Rhd8 18. Qf6 Nd3 19. Rc4 Kb8 20. a4! (White can easily go astray on move 20) e5 21. Qf3 Nc5 22. Qh5 ed4 23. Rc5 Qa4 24. cd4 Qd4 and the game remains about equal.


I have the Pert's book on the Ragozin and the chess24 series by Gustafson about the Vienna. Even having that, I've never played the Ragozin seriously, only here and there online. Lines are complicated, but I am focusing myself lately on something with more probabilities to be appeared on the board (like QGD exchange or even some funky Janowsky / Sielecki-like-dxc4).

Only answering to point out that there is another free source with these lines: a youtube channel called "Chess fan MWP" wich published some years ago (after Gustaffson series) a very detailed repertoire with Black based on Nimzo + Ragozin + Vienna. For instance: https://invidious.flokinet.to/watch?v=HSPfZWc_ADc

Salut
  
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Re: Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna
Reply #5 - 06/02/22 at 22:23:50
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I've been analyzing the Vienna/Ragozin complex from the black side recently. The search for something simple and easy still eludes me. Maybe I have the wrong opening!

The lines are complicated. The historic main mainline features doubled f pawns for black similar to many lines of the Richter-Rauzer Sicilian. It's kind of hard for black to play that in either opening, but there can be rewards.

GM Tan analyzes the game Lagrave-Aronian in his latest article for ChessPublishing. Lagrave goes for a sideline. It is very hard to take Aronian by surprise in this opening, which he has played many times. Lagrave resigned after Aronian's 25th move.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. Bg5 dxc4 6. e4 c5 7. Bxc4 cxd4

"7... h6 8. Bxf6 Qxf6 has been the modern interpretation of the line. There is nothing wrong with the old main line, but perhaps it requires more brute force memorisation," GM Tan. 7...h6 is recommended by GM Kuljasevic as a second line in his Ragozin repertoire at Modern-Chess.

8. Nxd4 Bxc3+ 9. bxc3 Qa5 10. Bb5+

White also has 10.Nb5 and 10Bxf6, but 10Bb5ch is the main line and I think it is the most dangerous. Pert pretty much neutralizes Bb5ch with 8...Qa5. However, white can answer 8...Qa5 with 9Bd2, also leading to interesting play.

At this point, Lagrave-Aronian continue with the main move 10...Nbd7. I prefer to play a known alternative 10...Bd7

10...Bd7 11. Bxf6 gxf6

An earlier ChessPub article states: "Usually White prefers to develop his queen first by 12Qb3 and so on."

12. Bxd7+

"This simple approach is not very popular but perhaps it's a bit underestimated."

12...Nxd7 13. O-O

Black has tried many moves. However, 13...a6 is clearly the main move. As far as I know 13...0-0-0 has only been played in one game. Pechac-Pacher are two strong Slovakian players and their 2019 game ended in a draw.

13...O-O-O 14. Rb1 Ne5 (14...a6 was played). The game remains complicated and can proceed in various directions. Here is one long sample line:

15. Rb4 (15Rb5 Qxb5 =) Rd6 16. Qh5 a6 17. Qh4 Rhd8 18. Qf6 Nd3 19. Rc4 Kb8 20. a4! (White can easily go astray on move 20) e5 21. Qf3 Nc5 22. Qh5 ed4 23. Rc5 Qa4 24. cd4 Qd4 and the game remains about equal.
  
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Re: Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna
Reply #4 - 07/27/21 at 12:59:14
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NoNoo wrote on 07/26/21 at 20:29:52:
For Chessable: Short and Sweet to purchasable products is quite a big leap.


Thanks for the Chessable evaluation. Also for the Gustafsson suggestion on the Vienna, which I will definitely check out.

You might want to look at Francisco Vallejo's eBook on the French at Chess24. It seems to me that he has the best answer to the Tarrasch, and many other interesting lines as well.
  
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Re: Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna
Reply #3 - 07/26/21 at 20:29:52
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On the Vienna: It might be worth to get a one month membership for C24 and check Gustafssons Vienna Series out. He is definately one of the better theoreticians out there and seems to cover

5.e3 6.Bxc4
5.e3 6.a4
5.Bg5
5.Qa4+

I only checked the chapter names, I can't judge the quality.



For Chessable: Short and Sweet to purchasable products is quite a big leap. I own Giris French Repertoire and while the purchased product is a lot deeper, the short and sweet shows the intentions of the author pretty well.

f.e. in the advance Variation he plays 5...Qb6 (instead of 5...Bd7), which i didnt like but after i saw how he handels the tarrasch and sidelines like KIA I decided to go for it (and might switch to the Winawer Smiley )

I hope I could help you Smiley
  
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Re: Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna
Reply #2 - 07/24/21 at 21:51:42
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Omission:

It seems that, once again, ChessPublishing has this covered in theoretical articles. I'm not saying that it replaces all other sources, but it certainly complements alternative sources.
  
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Re: Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna
Reply #1 - 07/24/21 at 21:38:50
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Clarification:  Chessable Short and Sweet products are free - for those who have purchased a Pro membership!
  
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Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna
07/24/21 at 21:29:21
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I recently bought an older book in electronic format:

https://everymanchess.com/products/queens-gambit-declined-vienna?_pos=2&_sid=e2c...

It comes in both PGN and CBV formats. A kindle version is available from Amazon. These PGN and CBV files open very well in ChessBase and Chess Opening Wizard respectively.

The book is an older book, but still the most recent in-depth book that I am aware of in this variation. I find that the lines sometimes result in new evaluations when considered with the help of a chess engine. So it is easy to update this book.

The Vienna/Ragozin complex make a reasonable pairing with the Nimzo-Indian. The Ragozin has been covered somewhat recently by Pert and Cornette, both books available in electronic format at Forward Chess. Chessable has recently put out a Nimzo/Ragozin pairing by IMs Sielecki and Barrish. They've also put out free Short and Sweet editions of the Nimzo and the Ragozin.

I like the Vienna book that I bought, but it starts at move 6, when white has significant deviations on move 5. The Ragozin books mentioned above correct that deficiency. Besides there is no theoretical reason (practicality is another consideration) why one should not have both the Ragozin and Vienna in one's repertoire.

I have yet to buy a Chessable book, but I have dabbled in their free short and sweet offerings. Obiously you get more with a purchased Chessable book. But how much more? I have little interest in listening to hours of video. However coverage of additional variations and sub-variations might well be worth the price.

Has anybody had experience comparing Short and Sweet vs. purchased Chessable products?
  
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