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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Lifetime Rep: KID #1 (Read 5505 times)
Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #34 - 06/25/22 at 13:15:07
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Hi.

I have Grandmaster Repertoire King's Indian 2 now as well Smiley. 663 pages of King's Indian goodness. Glancing through the various chapters I am quite impressed by how diverse black's play becomes from line to line. A lot of stuff in the repertoire is going to have concepts useful across many openings. There are some places, like in the first book, where black really tries to take care with move order. This I also find very nice. Many easy positions out of the opening can come from just move ordering a specific scheme from the opponent.

Have a nice day.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #33 - 06/13/22 at 19:00:49
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Hi.

MarinFan wrote on 06/13/22 at 09:38:23:
After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 Nbd7 If white attempts to go for the Petrosian variation with

7Bg5 Gawain proposes allowing transposing to a controversial line of the Petrosian with 7...h6 8Bh4 e5 9d5 g5 10Bg3 Nh5 which occured in a Kramnik v Kasparov game and can get quite sharp after 11h4. I actually thought this was a better try to for black than the official main-line of the Petrosian, which allows white to build position too much for my liking. (There Gawain proposes delaying Qe8 to play a queen sac with Nxe4, an idea which first occurred in another Kramnik v Kasparov game.)

Black doesn't have to allow that, and can play 8..g5 9.Bg3 Nh5 immediately, keeping open option of playing c5

I did a reference check on Petrosian a few weeks ago. It is first of all notable how all sources I am about to mention go:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.Nf3 O-O 5.e4 d6 6.Be2 e5 7.d5 a5 8.Bg5 h6
Secondly Jones was the only one to clearly state how not moving Qe8 later gave options.

8...h6 (Bologan 2009) - p.241
8...h6 (Vigorito 2010) - p.222
8...h6 (Bojkov 2014) - p.110
8...h6 (Kornev 2016) - p.268
8...h6 (Kotronias 2016) - p.254
8...h6 (Jones 2022) - p.288

In general with regards to lines that can take weird turns I think you are mostly happy with that when playing the KID. I find it a lot harder mentally when black gets positionally outplayed in some way and has subpar or nonexistent counterplay.

Also wanna mention that I had a long discussion about Petrosian with a few clubmates. Apparently Palliser in Play 1.d4 recommends:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.Nf3 O-O 5.e4 d6 6.Be2 Nbd7 7.Be3 e5 8.d5
Where white kinda prepares Nd2+f3 and probably tries to castle long later. Mildly tricky to face. Jones goes for getting in f7-f5 with...
8...Ng4 9.Bg5 f6
and has some nice ideas there as well. I wanna mention here though that 10.Bc1!? (not covered by Jones or, I think, Palliser)
Is possible and then f7-f5 should be timed well i.e.
10...a5
10...f5?! 11.Ng5 Nc5 12.b4 fxe4 13.0-0 e3 14.Bxg4 does not work out so good for black with the bishop a bit safer on c1 compared to d2.
11.h3 Nh6 12.h4!? f5
Now though black gets decent counterplay.

Have a nice day.
  
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MarinFan
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #32 - 06/13/22 at 09:38:23
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After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 Nbd7 If white attempts to go for the Petrosian variation with

7Bg5 Gawain proposes allowing transposing to a controversial line of the Petrosian with 7...h6 8Bh4 e5 9d5 g5 10Bg3 Nh5 which occured in a Kramnik v Kasparov game and can get quite sharp after 11h4. I actually thought this was a better try to for black than the official main-line of the Petrosian, which allows white to build position too much for my liking. (There Gawain proposes delaying Qe8 to play a queen sac with Nxe4, an idea which first occurred in another Kramnik v Kasparov game.)

Black doesn't have to allow that, and can play 8..g5 9.Bg3 Nh5 immediately, keeping open option of playing c5
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #31 - 05/18/22 at 06:28:31
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Hi.

Yes. Blitz is good to try new stuff Smiley

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #30 - 05/17/22 at 08:32:25
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Thanks!
You're right, I should be able to avoid most (or at least some) of the lines with an early d5 and probably all dxe5 lines.
I guess the best way to find out is to learn the 6. Nbd7 lines and play it in a ton of blitz games...
  
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #29 - 05/13/22 at 21:17:34
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Hello.

thojan wrote on 05/13/22 at 17:38:12:
I'm using Jones' new books to switch back to the KID. I'm a little confused about Jones' pet line with Nbd7. It looks interesting and avoids some of my old lines, which I don't like too much. But which lines does it actually replace?

6...Nbd7 (or 6...e5 and 7...Nbd7) is a complementary recommendation. The main recommendation is still 6...e5 and if 7.0-0 Nc6.

thojan wrote on 05/13/22 at 17:38:12:
He writes that it replaces the Mar del Plata and that by playing 6. ... Nbd7, "we bypass various set-ups including the dull Exchange Variation". What are these "various set-ups"?

I would think he means things that can happen between
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5
and
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Ne7

so...

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.dxe5
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.dxe5
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.Be3

or even...

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.d5 Nbd7 8.Bg5
because
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 Nbd7 7.0-0 e5 8.d5 Nc5
Is unlikely to go into this line.

thojan wrote on 05/13/22 at 17:38:12:
In the Makogonov and Saemisch, white deviates on move 6. So, these seem still possible.
What about the Petrosian and the Gligoric? In both of them, black plays 6. ... e5. Can I ignore them, if I learn the 6. ... Nbd7 lines?

With 6...Nbd7 move order:
Gligoric will not really be avoidable for black.
Petrosian I guess you avoid the line above at least.

With any move order:
Fianchetto doesn't seem super avoidable.
If you go 1.d4 d6 and prepare either 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 or 1.d4 d6 2.e4 Nf6 you should be able to avoid the Saemisch though. Black can also go for some early e5 in many lines e.g. 1.d4 d6 2.e4 g6 3.c4 e5. Apart from doing some other stuff though, white can go 4.Ne2 (or 4.Nc3 Bg7 5.Ne2) and still aim for f3. It becomes a Saemisch versus black who has played early e5 and has a little bit more flexibility than usual.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #28 - 05/13/22 at 17:38:12
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I'm using Jones' new books to switch back to the KID. I'm a little confused about Jones' pet line with Nbd7. It looks interesting and avoids some of my old lines, which I don't like too much. But which lines does it actually replace?

He writes that it replaces the Mar del Plata and that by playing 6. ... Nbd7, "we bypass various set-ups including the dull Exchange Variation". What are these "various set-ups"?

In the Makogonov and Saemisch, white deviates on move 6. So, these seem still possible.
What about the Petrosian and the Gligoric? In both of them, black plays 6. ... e5. Can I ignore them, if I learn the 6. ... Nbd7 lines?
  
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #27 - 04/15/22 at 10:52:02
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Hey.

TD wrote on 03/23/22 at 09:08:15:
The first book Grandmaster Repertoire: King's Indian 1 has also been published by Quality Chess.
https://www.debestezet.nl/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=5304

Liking this a lot so far. I'm only on the 6...Nbd7 KID chapters though. Very interesting to see the ideas.

Regards.
/ CbT
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #26 - 03/24/22 at 22:06:29
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Yea. I'm getting that. Cool

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #25 - 03/23/22 at 09:08:15
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The first book Grandmaster Repertoire: King's Indian 1 has also been published by Quality Chess.
https://www.debestezet.nl/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=5304
  
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #24 - 12/23/21 at 13:28:54
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TopNotch wrote on 12/23/21 at 06:17:39:
It's covered in the chapter Wojo's drawing weapons.


Thanks Topnotch. It sounds like a thorough and complete work.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 O-O 5. Bg2 d6 6. O-O c5 7. dc5!? dc5. I found some interesting play for black after 8Nc3 Nc6. It's not as boring as it looks. Instead, 8Ne5!? has been something of a spoiler. 8...Qc7 avoids the trade of queens and attacks the knight. However white has done well with 9Nd3. Perhaps 8....Qd4 is a better choice for black. It will be interesting to see how Jones tackles 8Ne5.
  
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #23 - 12/23/21 at 06:17:39
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FreeRepublic wrote on 12/19/21 at 14:41:48:
Does GM Jones analyze the position after

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 O-O 5. Bg2 d6 6. O-O c5 7. dc5!? dc5

or does he avoid this?


It's covered in the chapter Wojo's drawing weapons.  Wink
  
The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #22 - 12/19/21 at 14:46:22
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P.S.

with 8Ne5!?
  
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #21 - 12/19/21 at 14:41:48
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Does GM Jones analyze the position after

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 O-O 5. Bg2 d6 6. O-O c5 7. dc5!? dc5

or does he avoid this?
  
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Re: Lifetime Rep: KID #1
Reply #20 - 12/19/21 at 11:32:28
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Yes, i even think white shouldn‘t really go d5 before Nc3 because of this …b5 idea.

Also 9…Nbd7 is an interesting waiting move. The point is that white can‘t play the epishin maneuver with Rb1, as long as the bishop is on c8, as it will run into …Bf5.

The game could continue (7...b5 8.cxb5 a6 9.bxa6 Nbd7) 10.Nc3 Nb6, here white cannot go Rb1, and after e.g. 10.Re1 black plays …Ba6, when 11.Rb1 is answered by …Bc4 with a double attack, when white is kind of lucky to equalize after 12.e4 Ba2 13.Na2 Ra2 14.b4.
  
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