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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Killer Tromp (Read 2935 times)
JonathanB
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #12 - 04/14/22 at 19:58:38
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TopNotch wrote on 02/19/22 at 04:49:15:
... As far as I know though 4...Bf5 is still the approved and comfortable equalizer against 'The Raptor' ... The funny thing is that Avrukh published that antidote back in 2012!


Hodgson's book from 1997 says of 4 ... Bf5,
"It was only after this move that I lost much of my enthusiasm for the h4 Tromp."

He also gives 4 ... c5 a ! "although it has hardly been played."

The Killer Trompowsky does cover 3 ... d5 and 4 ... c5, btw. Not in huge detail, it's true. But it is there.




  

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Wintermondnacht
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #11 - 04/01/22 at 11:47:17
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Hi TopNotch,

you will find a comment from Kamil Plichta to 3....d5 followed by 4...c5 in his answers to questions from subscribers. Like me, he advocated 6.dxc5 as the only way to get a slightly better position.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #10 - 02/19/22 at 04:49:15
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Wintermondnacht wrote on 02/18/22 at 11:40:20:
Hi TopNotch,

I agree with you that both (Plichta and Williams) have some gaps, especially in the variation you mentioned. However, I bought them both and liked the stimulating approach by Plichta and it was a real pleasure to see and hear Mr Tromp (aka Hodgson) to comment on some Tromp affairs.

By the way I think that after 1.d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. h4 d5 4.Nd2 c5! 5.Nxe4 dxe4 6.dxc5 might be stronger than 6.d5 as shown by the other Tromp Guru in Miladinovic-Hadzimanolis.



Agreed, Plichta and Williams are both very entertaining presenters. Regarding the chess 6.dxc5 has not received many practical tests, then again neither has 4...c5 for that matter. Despite 6.dxc5 being the preferred engine choice I don't find it is too convincing.

I was more curious about why 4...c5 isn't played more often than anything else, but that could be due to the overall unpopularity of 3.h4 in the first place. As far as I know though 4...Bf5 is still the approved and comfortable equalizer against 'The Raptor'  and nothing I have seen in Killer Tromp or Break the Rules after 5.Nxe4 Bxe4 6.f3 h6! convinces me otherwise. The funny thing is that Avrukh published that antidote back in 2012! in his book Beating 1.d4 Sidelines and it still holds up well today, and I can't swear to this but I think this same remedy was also offered by Joe Gallagher in his Beating the Anti-King's Indians book from 1996! citing none other than the maestro himself Hodgson - Salov, 1993.  Wink

  

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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #9 - 02/18/22 at 11:40:20
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Hi TopNotch,

I agree with you that both (Plichta and Williams) have some gaps, especially in the variation you mentioned. However, I bought them both and liked the stimulating approach by Plichta and it was a real pleasure to see and hear Mr Tromp (aka Hodgson) to comment on some Tromp affairs.

By the way I think that after 1.d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. h4 d5 4.Nd2 c5! 5.Nxe4 dxe4 6.dxc5 might be stronger than 6.d5 as shown by the other Tromp Guru in Miladinovic-Hadzimanolis.

  
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TopNotch
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #8 - 12/23/21 at 06:50:34
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RoleyPoley wrote on 11/25/21 at 13:52:40:
His site is now running a Black Friday 50% off sale on all items for anyone interested in getting this.


Still overpriced if you ask me.
  

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RoleyPoley
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #7 - 11/25/21 at 13:52:40
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His site is now running a Black Friday 50% off sale on all items for anyone interested in getting this.
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

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TopNotch
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #6 - 11/25/21 at 00:13:01
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winawer77 wrote on 11/22/21 at 10:18:35:
RoleyPoley wrote on 11/22/21 at 09:15:10:
TopNotch wrote on 11/22/21 at 01:24:27:
They did it on GingerGM rather than Chessable so as to do less work and avoid the inevitable forum reviews?


Isn't there already a fairly recent one on Chessable by Plichta? They may not have wanted a second one so soon and so he thought he could expand his GingerGM video range - there may be an opportunity to do it for Chessable later as he did with the Jobava stuff. A lot of his Chessable products have been done elsewhere first.

In the free video William's mentions that it is based on his own repertoire. He also plugs GChess too which has only just launched.


There is, and Plichta covers 3.h4 as well, so some real overlap here. Was thinking of getting the Killer Tromp course, too as its an opening close to my heart. Palliser is an excellent author, so as long as he is providing the core analysis then I'll have confidence in it. Without Palliser's name attached to it, I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

Regarding, 1.d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. h4 d5 4.Nd2 c5! Plichta also does not cover this (I have his course, too).

Looking in Lichess I did find the below game, but whether this is recommended in the course is another matter. It quickly went downhill for White mainly due to 8.Bxf6, whereas 8.Bb5+ would have been fine.

[Event "Rated Blitz game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/L2o2lsiE"]
[Date "2021.10.30"]
[White "GingerGM"]
[Black "shahinlorpari"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A45"]
[WhiteElo "2632"]
[BlackElo "2772"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. h4 d5 4. Nd2 c5 5. Nxe4 dxe4 6. d5 Nd7 7. e3 Nf6 8.
Bxf6 exf6 9. Ne2 Bd6 10. Nc3 f5 11. a4 O-O 12. h5 Be5 13. h6 g6 14. Qd2 Bd7 15.
Bc4 Rb8 16. d6 Qb6 17. O-O-O Qb4 18. Ba2 b5 19. a5 Qxa5 20. Kb1 Qb4 21. f4 exf3
22. gxf3 Rb6 23. f4 Rxd6 24. Bd5 Rxd5 25. Qxd5 Bxc3 26. Qb3 Bc6 27. bxc3 Qxb3+
28. cxb3 Bxh1 29. Rxh1 Rd8 30. Kc2 Kf8 31. Ra1 Rd7 32. Ra6 Ke7 33. Rc6 c4 34.
bxc4 bxc4 35. Rxc4 a5 36. Rc5 Ra7 37. Kb3 Kd6 38. Re5 Re7 39. Rxe7 Kxe7 40. Ka4
f6 41. Kxa5 g5 42. c4 g4 43. c5 g3 44. Kb6 g2 0-1


So he is definitely aware of the line, so no excuse to not analyze it in his course. Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Bibs
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #5 - 11/24/21 at 10:46:26
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Well, I have been playing the Tromp on and off for over 30 years (last time was a couple of weeks ago, 1-0), and I have to say I was never tempted by the h4 stuff at any point (or Bh4 for that matter).

For the Tromp to be a challenge, I always felt that it had to be Bf4, or nothing.

Can white achieve equality after h4? Perhaps?
  
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winawer77
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #4 - 11/22/21 at 10:18:35
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RoleyPoley wrote on 11/22/21 at 09:15:10:
TopNotch wrote on 11/22/21 at 01:24:27:
They did it on GingerGM rather than Chessable so as to do less work and avoid the inevitable forum reviews?


Isn't there already a fairly recent one on Chessable by Plichta? They may not have wanted a second one so soon and so he thought he could expand his GingerGM video range - there may be an opportunity to do it for Chessable later as he did with the Jobava stuff. A lot of his Chessable products have been done elsewhere first.

In the free video William's mentions that it is based on his own repertoire. He also plugs GChess too which has only just launched.


There is, and Plichta covers 3.h4 as well, so some real overlap here. Was thinking of getting the Killer Tromp course, too as its an opening close to my heart. Palliser is an excellent author, so as long as he is providing the core analysis then I'll have confidence in it. Without Palliser's name attached to it, I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

Regarding, 1.d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. h4 d5 4.Nd2 c5! Plichta also does not cover this (I have his course, too).

Looking in Lichess I did find the below game, but whether this is recommended in the course is another matter. It quickly went downhill for White mainly due to 8.Bxf6, whereas 8.Bb5+ would have been fine.

[Event "Rated Blitz game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/L2o2lsiE"]
[Date "2021.10.30"]
[White "GingerGM"]
[Black "shahinlorpari"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A45"]
[WhiteElo "2632"]
[BlackElo "2772"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. h4 d5 4. Nd2 c5 5. Nxe4 dxe4 6. d5 Nd7 7. e3 Nf6 8.
Bxf6 exf6 9. Ne2 Bd6 10. Nc3 f5 11. a4 O-O 12. h5 Be5 13. h6 g6 14. Qd2 Bd7 15.
Bc4 Rb8 16. d6 Qb6 17. O-O-O Qb4 18. Ba2 b5 19. a5 Qxa5 20. Kb1 Qb4 21. f4 exf3
22. gxf3 Rb6 23. f4 Rxd6 24. Bd5 Rxd5 25. Qxd5 Bxc3 26. Qb3 Bc6 27. bxc3 Qxb3+
28. cxb3 Bxh1 29. Rxh1 Rd8 30. Kc2 Kf8 31. Ra1 Rd7 32. Ra6 Ke7 33. Rc6 c4 34.
bxc4 bxc4 35. Rxc4 a5 36. Rc5 Ra7 37. Kb3 Kd6 38. Re5 Re7 39. Rxe7 Kxe7 40. Ka4
f6 41. Kxa5 g5 42. c4 g4 43. c5 g3 44. Kb6 g2 0-1
  
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RoleyPoley
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #3 - 11/22/21 at 09:15:10
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TopNotch wrote on 11/22/21 at 01:24:27:
They did it on GingerGM rather than Chessable so as to do less work and avoid the inevitable forum reviews?


Isn't there already a fairly recent one on Chessable by Plichta? They may not have wanted a second one so soon and so he thought he could expand his GingerGM video range - there may be an opportunity to do it for Chessable later as he did with the Jobava stuff. A lot of his Chessable products have been done elsewhere first.

In the free video William's mentions that it is based on his own repertoire. He also plugs GChess too which has only just launched.

Thanks TopNotch for sharing that line - it was your comment previously about this line that prompted my question.
« Last Edit: 11/22/21 at 11:12:44 by RoleyPoley »  

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TopNotch
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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #2 - 11/22/21 at 01:24:27
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They did it on GingerGM rather than Chessable so as to do less work and avoid the inevitable forum reviews?

Thoughts?

Edit: I bet you a million pounds that the following line isn't considered for black - 1.d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 Ne4 3. h4 d5 4.Nd2 c5!
  

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Re: Killer Tromp
Reply #1 - 11/21/21 at 09:02:05
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Its got a few recent(ish) mentions/games on the main site, as I remember? Leela is fairly happy about it being an option.
  
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Killer Tromp
11/19/21 at 15:32:31
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The latest GingerGM opening video is out covering the Trompovsky. Palliser has again helped with this, and it features an interview with Hodgson as an extra.

The line vs Ne4 is h4. I'm a bit surprised at that as that was the line given in the Chessable course and I didn't think it was theoretically as good as other options for white?

  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

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