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Normal Topic Computer move 4. h4 d5!? (Read 692 times)
Jonathan Tait
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Re: Computer move 4. h4 d5!?
Reply #5 - 01/13/22 at 12:11:18
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Another game:

[Event "CCC 16 Blitz: Qualification (5|5)"]
[Date "2022.01.12"]
[White "Halogen"]
[Black "Seer"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C39"]
[PlyCount "107"]
[EventType "blitz"]

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. h4 d5 5. d4 dxe4 6. Nxg5 Nf6 7. Nc3 Bb4 8. Bxf4 h6 9. Bc4 Bxc3+ 10. bxc3 hxg5 11. Bxg5 Qd6 12. O-O Nd5 13. Qe1 Nc6 14. Qxe4+ Be6 15. Rae1 Kd7 16. Rf5 Nce7 17. Re5 c6 18. Bb3 Ng6 19. c4 Nxe5 20. cxd5 cxd5 21. Qxe5 Qxe5 22. Rxe5 Rac8 23. a4 b6 24. Re3 Kc6 25. Bf6 Rh5 26. c3 b5 27. Bd1 Rh6 28. Bg5 Rg6 29. Kf2 Kb6 30. Be7 a5 31. h5 Rgg8 32. Bc5+ Kc6 33. Bf3 Rb8 34. axb5+ Rxb5 35. c4 Rb2+ 36. Kg1 Rc2 37. Rb3 Rxc4 38. Rb6+ Kc7 39. Ra6 Rc1+ 40. Kf2 Ra1 41. g4 Bxg4 42. Bxd5 Rg5 43. Ra7+ Kc8 44. Bb7+ Kb8 45. Bc6 Rf5+ 46. Kg3 Rg1+ 47. Kh2 Rb1 48. Rxa5 Rxh5+ 49. Kg3 Rh6 50. Ra8+ Kc7 51. d5 Rxc6 52. Ra7+ Rb7 53. Rxb7+ Kxb7 54. dxc6+ 1/2-1/2
  

blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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FreeRepublic
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Re: Computer move 4. h4 d5!?
Reply #4 - 12/22/21 at 21:41:21
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1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. h4 d5 5. d4 dxe4 6. Nxg5

"With an unclear mess," Jonathan Tait. At least we don't have (another) refutation of the King's Gambit. Thanks for the analysis and game.

I could not find 4h4 d5!? in John Shaw's book on the King's Gambit.

While 4...d5!? may not refute, it still may provide a little incentive for white to consider alternatives. Shaw spends a considerable amount of time on 4Nc3 and some time on 4d4, while my notes show 4Bc4 as an option.
  
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Jonathan Tait
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Re: Computer move 4. h4 d5!?
Reply #3 - 12/18/21 at 08:41:03
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I have 22 games in my databases. Overall score: W6, B7 with 9 draws. The first is Ka.Richter-R.Thiemig, Hohenlimburg 1978 (1-0, 27), but apart from 4...d5 it's of no theoretical value.

As for 4...d5 itself, I think it at least requires non-stereotyped thinking (like a computer), since just leaving the g5-pawn en prise is not the most obvious choice. But once the move appears, its logic is readily appreciated.
  

blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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bof
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Re: Computer move 4. h4 d5!?
Reply #2 - 12/18/21 at 01:31:42
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Thanks. The move 4...d5 doesn't seem all that computery, it seems like a natural try. I wonder how human players managed to avoid it all these centuries. You have more examples? Are there any examples where White wins, or is White always just fighting for a draw? I suppose White wins would be more likely in games between humans, where Black has a 50% chance of making the last blunder.
  
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Jonathan Tait
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Re: Computer move 4. h4 d5!?
Reply #1 - 12/17/21 at 15:09:49
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bof wrote on 12/17/21 at 11:25:03:
1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. h4 and Stockfish seems to consider 4...d5 on a par with 4...g4. My opening books mention 4th move alternatives such as Be7 and f6 and Nf6 but nothing on d5. Has this been played by humans? Is there any theory? How should White meet this?


Yes, it's tricky that, since 5 exd5 g4 6 Ne5 sees White move-ordered into a bad Kieseritzky (i.e. 4...g4 5 Ne5 d5 6 exd5?!). Hence 5 d4 dxe4 (5...g4 6 Ne5 is correct again) 6 Nxg5 with an unclear mess. One example:

[Event "TCEC Season 21 - League 2"]
[Date "2021.06.07"]
[Round "6.5"]
[White "Winter 9.4"]
[Black "Minic 3.07"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C39"]
[WhiteElo "3425"]
[BlackElo "3423"]
[PlyCount "56"]
[EventDate "2021.??.??"]

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. h4 d5 5. d4 dxe4 6. Nxg5 Nf6 7. Nc3 Bb4 8. Bxf4 h6 9. Bc4 Bxc3+ 10. bxc3 hxg5 11. Bxg5 Qd6 12. O-O Nd5 13. Qe1 f5 14. g4 Nf6 15. gxf5 Nbd7 16. Rf4 Kf8 17. Be6 Nh5 18. Rxe4 Ndf6 19. Re3 Ng4 20. Rh3 Nf4 21. Rf3 Nxe6 22. fxe6+ Kg7 23. Qd2 Bxe6 24. Bf6+ Kh7 25. Qd3+ Kh6 26. Qd2+ Kh7 27. Qd3+ Kh6 28. Qd2+ Kh7 1/2-1/2
  

blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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Computer move 4. h4 d5!?
12/17/21 at 11:25:03
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1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. h4 and Stockfish seems to consider 4...d5 on a par with 4...g4. My opening books mention 4th move alternatives such as Be7 and f6 and Nf6 but nothing on d5. Has this been played by humans? Is there any theory? How should White meet this?
  
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