winawer77 wrote on 02/21/22 at 13:15:13:


Yes, Liem cut quite a few corners in that course which chessable would never have allowed a sub-2700 author to get away with, especially for a Lifetime Repertoire. The same thing happens in life, the rich and powerful get away with murder (figuratively) while the rest of us have to constantly watch our back. Case in point, Donald Trump's part in attempting to overthrow the US election, and yet he seems untouchable, while anyone else would have long since been in jail serving a substantial term for treason. That's life. 

winawer77 wrote on 02/21/22 at 00:56:27:


I am aware of Liem's analysis, and agree with you that 8.Nd2 is more purposeful. Nevertheless, if you take a step back and ask yourself, can delaying White's kingside development like this be ultimately good for White when Black has already castled and is almost fully mobilized? The answer will probably be no.

True that chess is fast becoming a more concrete game week by week, but the well-established Opening principles still have their place in guiding our thought process and motivating us to probe the right directions even when they are not immediately apparent to NNUE Engines. 

All I will say about Liem's line is that White can equalize but he needs to tread very carefully indeed, and you should know that Black's most dangerous try is not even considered by Liem in his course.   

I have Liem's course, and have been using his suggestions successfully online. I have definitely come to appreciate the change in play that the positional 6.Nb5 has over the h4 attacks. But both are interesting in their own way. 

After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 g6 4.e3 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Nb5 Na6 7.h3 Ne4 Liem recommends the immediate 8.Nd2, with the main line going 8...c6 9.Nxe4 dxe4 10.Nc3 c5. Rough equality results after many central exchanges. He gives three or four lines covering this.

I think 8.Nd2 is more purposeful than the slow 8.c3 given earlier. Exchanging the e4 knight is a priority and keeping the c3 square free for the b5 knight is good, too.

Nernstian59 wrote on 02/18/22 at 02:05:15:


You are most welcome, and don't worry about it, one or two digressions are par for the course in most interesting threads. And so long as the pertinent information is also there it should not become a big deal. What annoys me though are Trolls trying to land cheap shots on the one hand, and then expecting satisfying answers on the other.

Anyhow, nuff said - The brief analysis I gave in that thread is beginning to appear in more and more recent sources, so there is no need for me to include it in a "Taking out the Trash: 1.d4" follow up  For instance, while Boris Avrukh along with myself have faith in the more adventurous 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 g6 4.e3 Bg7 5.h4 0-0  Gawain Jones and Peter Svidler have both plumped for the safer  1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 g6 4.e3 Bg7 5.h4 h5 in their recent chessable courses.

It is telling also that Le Quang Liem in his London System, Lifetime Repertoire for White completely rejected this Kamikaze-Harry-the-h-pawn approach. But I'm secretly hoping these little clues go unnoticed by the wider Londoneer community.

Regarding Aronian's much more positionally subtle 6.Nb5 approach, I feel both validated and annoyed at the same time, that Gawain and Peter have again let the cat out of the bag before giving me the chance to haul in some easy elo points.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 g6 4.e3 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Nb5 Na6 7.h3 Ne4! 

Black's most promising line and surprisingly not mentioned in most sources that advocate this 6.Nb5 approach, at least until very recently. There is a well-hidden tactical trick that makes this entire variation unappealing for White that I will share with 
you now. 

8.c3 

Probably the most common choice in this position and used by Aronian himself. 

8...c6 9.Na3 f6! 

Turns out that ...e5 cannot be favorably be prevented due to the pressure on the f-file, and with that being the case it means that Black has a very pleasant position. If White tries to be clever with 

10.Bxa6 bxa6 11.0-0 

thinking he has prevented ...e5 for the moment, then he is in for a shock. 

11...e5! 

Black plays it anyway and now it is White that should be careful to equalize. Note that Black has other promising alternatives as well if he does not fancy the coming forced draw. I chose to show this ...e5 idea to better illustrate one of the key recurring tactical motifs that makes this entire 7...Ne4 setup work for Black. 

12.dxe5 fxe5 13.Nxe5 Bxe5 14.Bxe5 Bxh3 15.Bf4 

The only move to maintain the balance according to the engines. [ Alternatively 15.gxh3? Qg5+ 16.Bg3 Nxf2 17.Rxf2 Qxg3+ 18.Rg2 Qxe3+ 19.Kh2 Rf3 White is defenseless.] 

15...Qh4 16.f3 Rxf4 17.exf4 Bxg2 18.Kxg2 Qg3+ 19.Kh1 Qh3+ With perpetual check. 

Regarding Andrew Martin's latest Chessabse DVD mentioned in the original post, I'm afraid I stopped checking his content years ago, so I would be of little help here. I have however briefly checked Elizabeth Pahtz's latest Jobava London offering, and I must say that she has succeeded in bringing some new ideas to the table, well maybe not quite new, more accurate to say refurbished. 

Pahtz concludes that Black equalizes with accurate play but White's play is easier. I agree with her on the equality part, but as to whose play is easier and why is a matter of taste. King's Indian players as Liam Neeson would say, have a special set of skills and generally enjoy sharp positions with plenty of counterplay, so I don't fully buy into Pahtz's argument as the line she advocates is comparable to raising a red flag to a bull.

For those curious about her recommendation, here it is:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bf4 g6 4.Qd2 Bg7 5.f3 

She offers several improvements on the theoretically important game Maxim Dlugy vs Lenier Dominguez from 2015, in which the Cuban/American dealt out such a beating that you would have assumed Dlugy owed him money or something, so convincing was the debacle that most White players were scared off this line until recently, I guess time heals all wounds as they say.   

All the best,
Toppy

FizzySoda wrote on 02/03/22 at 19:48:40:


I've been analyzing these various Nb5 ideas ever since they were brought into popularity by Levon Aronian, my conclusion is that a well-prepared Black player has nothing at all to fear. Similarly, the early h4 ideas in the London also have not aged well, with current practice showing that 150 Attack style approaches,  simply don't carry the same impact against the KID and Grunfeld as they do against the Pirc and Modern. Needless to say, my unpopular point of view among Jobava Londoneers got me booed off the chessable forum. A badge of honor methinks! - LOL :=)