Tricky Repertoire against the Italian (1h and 40min Video Running Time) GM Mihail Marin     Wednesday, November 2, 2022

https://www.modern-chess.com/tricky-repertoire-against-the-italian-1h-and-40min-...

There is a sale on now, putting it in my price range.

George Jempty wrote on 02/16/22 at 17:30:50:


Feels a bit weird to me to play c6 immediately, unless it's connected with a very concrete idea. I would rather start with some obviously useful moves like O-O and a5, getting a knight on the way to c5 with either Na6 or Nd7, and seeing what white does. You can then decide accordingly whether you're playing for f5, c6 of Bg5. It seems to me with 7...c6 you just show your hand really early.

Rasblossom wrote on 02/15/22 at 22:40:48:


Hah I just bought an old radio shack electronic board for practicing blindfold against, even today's weak engines, such as ToyTarrasch, are too good for me, at least at blindfold.  When I played them sighted in the past, I never one as either of you has described, but I do remember sacrificing a pawn on the wing away from its king, and then winning with an attack on the king.

Rasblossom wrote on 02/15/22 at 21:25:33:


Thanks, in the Modern Steinitz I go for the Siesta variation 5...f5 after 5. c3, which is why I find Dubov's 4...f5 intriguing after 3.Bc4 d6 4.c3 (and also why I'm not familiar with anything like the variation you posted)

I'd appreciate if somebody could provide me the move order in the Modern Steinitz (or Steinitz) that results in similar positions, I play the former in a different way that doesn't reach them.  Also the move order for the similar positions to the Old Indian, thanks.

Rasblossom wrote on 02/15/22 at 12:00:41:

Yes, indeed. In the Cafferty game quoted by George Jempty white did just about everything a little bit wrong. In a similar way I used to win easily against the old computers by playing the old Steinitz Defense to the Spanish -- they would play d4-d5, generate zero queenside play, and inevitably get mated on g2. Those days are gone, now the computers play with me like a chew toy.

365chess.com does not require an account, but it's not easy to link to individual games. I have attached the Grund - Romanov game.

George Jempty wrote on 02/15/22 at 05:06:13:

You should be more careful when quoting games, 8...Nc5 is not possible there. Did Ivanchuk play 7...Nbd7. ?

d4-d5, ...Nc6-b8, Bc4-d3, c2-c4 is entirely standard, this was Reinfeld's recommendation against the Hungarian (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Be7 4.d4 d6 5.d5 Nb8 6.Bd3 Nf6 7.c4 Nbd7 8.Nc3) and is generally considered to be +=. The game becomes an Old Indian where black is a tempo down. But it seems the insertion of O-O and ...Ng8-f6 makes this += harder for white achieve. It's one of those peculiar instances in the closed games where castling is a "loss of tempo".

It's a little different if black hasn't played ...Be7. There d4-d5, ...Nc6-e7, Bc4-d3, ...Ne7-g6 reaches an Old Indian where black is a tempo up. Although it's probably still += , every tempo helps. The ...Nb8-d7-f8-g6 plan is not considered the best, although it's not terrible if white has done O-O.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 02/15/22 at 04:41:46:


I'm interested in new/different approaches to 4.c3 (Dubov's 4...f5) and against 4.Nc3 then 4...Na5 which I found with an engine but it makes sense, White has made it difficult for himself to control d4 so Black would like to play ...c5 there was a game with it Grund-Romanov (a couple of 2400s) in 2002, it's not on chessgames but is on 365chess which requires an account but I've gotten maybe one email from them in a decade.

Speaking of ...f5, in another critical line 4.0-0 Be7 5.d4 Nf6 6.d5 Nb8 I've found a possible path, of course depending on White's moves, to a freer position and possible equality for Black after ...0-0, ...Kh8, ...Ng8 and ...f5 but I have lots more investigating to do, I've been looking into it after 7.Nc3 but it might not be so well suited after 7. Bd3 (as played in the blitz game Anand-Ivanchuk from 2017)

BTW I learned about the Alekhine game from the Seirawan book "Take My Rooks" but he had a simpler path to a winning position at one point with the simple ...Be6 (which is sometimes a good move in general in the Paris Defense e.g. against 4.h3?! which I've seen a lot as an amateur)

EDIT: So I found the idea of 7.Nc3 0-0 and the ...Kh8, ...Ng8 and ...f5 by tinkering around with SF14 but interestingly I've now found a game lost by Bernard Cafferty playing White against this idea in the 1959 British Championship (Golombek, Haygarth and Penrose tied for first): https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1161308

Upon closer inspection even in the line 4.0-0 Be7 5.d4 Nf6 6.d5 Nb8 7.Bd3 a future ...f5 can be a factor e.g. if White follows the same erroneous path as Anand did against Ivanchuk: 7...0-0 8.c4?! Nc5 9.Nc3 Nxd3 10.Qxd3 O-O 11.Nd2?! Nh5 12.g3 g6 13.b4 f5, I guess that White allowing the exchange of his bad LSB made it easier for Black to acheive ...f5, which is also in the offing after 11.c5 and then either 11...Nh5 or 11...Ne8.  Against 11.Ne1 Black plays 11...Nfd7 to respond to 12.f4?! exf4 13.Bxf4 with 13...Bf6.  Against 12.Be3 Black can play 12...Bg5, and if instead 12. Qd2 to prevent that, or 12.Qe2, again Black has 12...f5