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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred (Read 2871 times)
Mark L
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #12 - 03/10/22 at 21:30:44
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It may not be in White's best interest to defer the exchange if 3...a6 isn't played, assuming the exchange itself is of high priority. These seem to be the 4 most likely variations with White's best responses IMO.

Exchange Deferred:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. Bxc6 dxc6 6. d3

Berlin Defence:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. d3 ​

Old Steinitz Defence:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. Bxc6+ axc6 5. d4 exd4  6. Nxd4 or Qxd4

Caro Variation:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 b5 5. Bb3 Na5 6. O-O d6 7. d4 Nxb3 8. axb3
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #11 - 03/06/22 at 14:03:04
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I belive the line is playable but I also think it depends on the type of position white is comfortable in. I belive its a simply a game of Chess. If one plays d3 Berlin, that the video I mention also plays, it would lead to similar structures.
  
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #10 - 03/05/22 at 18:54:36
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GM Damiam Lemos recommend this system for white in a Ruy Lopez video serie Deep Dive: The Ruy Lopez.

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« Last Edit: 03/06/22 at 10:01:41 by bragesjo »  
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Mark L
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #9 - 02/20/22 at 05:57:29
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I found a nice video on YouTube by IM Andrew Martin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjPGR8Fus4U
  
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #8 - 02/17/22 at 09:29:29
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Yes, naturally enough it is 'not bad'. White is white, and has made normal moves. 'Chances for both sides', indeed in all those sorts of positions, where so few bits have come off the board.

If you like it, sure, go for it. I might suggest the DERLD approach, but as aoc says, there are minor pay-offs.

For these sorts of positions, do have a look at the 1000s of games played in the Ruy 4.d3 anti-Berlin lines with a Bxc6 thrown in. Oodles of these games now at the highest levels. Also one can get such kinda positions from 1.b3 e5, where white goes Bb5 and chops the c6 knight too.

It's chess, and chess is rich.
  
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #7 - 02/16/22 at 01:57:39
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 02/15/22 at 03:02:29:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. Bxc6 dxc6 6. d3

5.Bxc6 is not bad. Compared to 5.O-O Be7 6.Bxc6 white is not committed to O-O, but on the other hand black's bishop is not so good on e7 either. I see that I drew against an IM with 6...Bd6 and won against an NM with 6...Nd7. Both moves are fine. If black allows Nb1-d2-c4xd6 it can become drawish, which is why I varied against the NM. They both castled kingside. Smiley

If you like this for white, it also provides an answer to 3...Nf6 (4.Bxc6!?). Here is an old game of mine:

Amateur (1900) vs an ordinary chessplayer (2300), club swiss rd.1, 2001.07.15
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.Nc3 Nd7 6.d4 exd4 7.Qxd4 f6 8.O-O Bd6 9.Qc4 Ne5 10.Nxe5 Bxe5 11.f4 Qd4+ 12.Qxd4 Bxd4+ 13.Kh1 Bxc3 14.bxc3 Be6 15.Be3 O-O-O 16.a3 Rhe8 17.Bg1 Bc4 18.Rfe1 Rd2 19.Rac1 b6 20.h4 c5 21.Bh2 Bb5 22.e5 fxe5 23.fxe5 Bc6 24.Rg1 Re2 25.Rcf1 Kd7 26.Rc1 Ke6 27.Bf4 Rf8 28.Bg3 Rf3 29.Kh2 Rxc3 30.Bf4 Kf5 31.Rcf1 Kg4 0-1


White also has 5. d3  5. O-O and 5. Nxe5 but theoretically all 5th moves look drawish in this line, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Against the Berlin, I might wait to exchange on c6 until theory calls for it or at least until Black played a6. Here's an attempt to have a similar structure as the original model game with d3 and Nbd2.

3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. Nbd2 O-O 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. Nc4 with 82 games listed on 365chess +29 -12 =41

4. d3 d6 5. Nbd2 Be7 6. Nf1 a6 7. Bxc6 bxc6 8. Bd2 with similar ideas as the original game in post #1.

4. d3 d6 5. c3 a6 6. Bxc6 bxc6 7. Nbd2 with chances for both sides.

4. d3 d6 5. c3 Be7 6. Nbd2 O-O 7. Nf1 a6 8. Bxc6 bxc6 9. Ng3 with chances for both sides.

Needless to say, even though the goal may be to exchange with Bxc6 it may not always be correct. Theoretically, White scores better by not exchanging on c6 in some of these lines.

However, in the original line where 3. Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 (Black's most played move) the continuation 5. Bxc6 looks pretty good if followed up properly.
  
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #6 - 02/15/22 at 22:52:52
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Looking into this further, it seems Black has better chances with an early d6 without a6 if White exchanges with Bxc6 early on. However, if White patiently develops then theoretically Bxc6 looks fine.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. O-O Be7 7. Bxc6 and White scores well according to 365chess.

With an early Bxc6:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 d6 4. Bxc6+ bxc6 5. d4 exd4 6. Qxd4 c5 7. Qd3 Be7 8. O-O Nf6 9. Nc3 or Re1 and the position looks fairly drawish.

6. Nxd4 c5 7. Ne2 Be7 8. O-O and this looks very drawish.

I just wanted to get this out of the way before looking more closely at the Berlin defence.
  
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #5 - 02/15/22 at 11:11:19
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In the UK the move 6 version of this has some history and pedigree.

Called the DERLD.

I understand that work was done on this by an amateur player, Len Pickett from Lewisham club. He penned a monograph on it.
Discussed hereabouts:
https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1325657521

Another source:
https://store.chessclub.com/har-zvi-the-derld

Edit:
Per that link. Bit surprised ICC still exists actually. I’d completely forgotten about it.
  
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #4 - 02/15/22 at 03:02:29
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1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. Bxc6 dxc6 6. d3

5.Bxc6 is not bad. Compared to 5.O-O Be7 6.Bxc6 white is not committed to O-O, but on the other hand black's bishop is not so good on e7 either. I see that I drew against an IM with 6...Bd6 and won against an NM with 6...Nd7. Both moves are fine. If black allows Nb1-d2-c4xd6 it can become drawish, which is why I varied against the NM. They both castled kingside. Smiley

If you like this for white, it also provides an answer to 3...Nf6 (4.Bxc6!?). Here is an old game of mine:

Amateur (1900) vs an ordinary chessplayer (2300), club swiss rd.1, 2001.07.15
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.Nc3 Nd7 6.d4 exd4 7.Qxd4 f6 8.O-O Bd6 9.Qc4 Ne5 10.Nxe5 Bxe5 11.f4 Qd4+ 12.Qxd4 Bxd4+ 13.Kh1 Bxc3 14.bxc3 Be6 15.Be3 O-O-O 16.a3 Rhe8 17.Bg1 Bc4 18.Rfe1 Rd2 19.Rac1 b6 20.h4 c5 21.Bh2 Bb5 22.e5 fxe5 23.fxe5 Bc6 24.Rg1 Re2 25.Rcf1 Kd7 26.Rc1 Ke6 27.Bf4 Rf8 28.Bg3 Rf3 29.Kh2 Rxc3 30.Bf4 Kf5 31.Rcf1 Kg4 0-1
  
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #3 - 02/14/22 at 20:58:32
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MNb wrote on 02/14/22 at 17:29:21:
Is it worth the loss of tempo?


I would leave that decision to each player. I do find that the loss of tempo is perfectly fine when both Nf6 is played by Black and knowing this specific plan which my opponent may not be aware of. I have encountered 4...Nf6, 4...b5 and 4...d6.

With 4...b5 Black can go after the King's Bishop with 5.Bb3 Na5. White will have the half open a-file after 6. O-O d6 7. d4 Nxb3 8. axb3.

With 4...d6 5. O-O Bd7 6. c3 Nge7 7. d4 for a Modern Steinitz variation.

So there are 3 ways to handle the Exchange.

A) Immediate capture with 4. Bxc6
B) Deferred capture with 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. Bxc6
C) Doubly Deferred with 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Bxc6

I do not know the merits of approach C at this point. One thing it does is allow Black to enter the Open variation with 5. O-O Nxe4. Some players with White may prefer that. If Black does not enter that variation and plays for instance 5...Be7 then White can enter the Exchange Doubly Deferred with 6. Bxc6 but I have not looked into it at this point, as I am concentrating on a definite exchange by move 5.
  
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #2 - 02/14/22 at 17:29:21
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Is it worth the loss of tempo?
  

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Mark L
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Re: Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
Reply #1 - 02/14/22 at 13:26:52
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I forgot to add, this method gives Black the opportunity to commit to 4...Nf6 before the exchange at c6. 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. Bxc6

The immediate exchange 4. Bxc6 dxc6 allows Black to create a more flexible setup on the Kingside. For instance 5. O-O f6 6. d4 exd4 7. Nxd4 and Black can deploy the remaining Knight to e7, probably after Bd6, but not always. Black also may feel more compelled to castle Queenside since f6 has been played.

The Exchange Deferred with Black playing Nf6, White can more easily aim for an opposite side castle and can develop a more flexible arrangement with the Queen's Knight.
  
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Ruy Lopez Exchange Deferred
02/13/22 at 03:43:26
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I've tried this variation as White, as opposed to the more straight forward 4. Bxc6

  
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