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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Invasion of Ukraine (Read 7345 times)
CanadianClub
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #26 - 04/13/22 at 16:38:27
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Laramonet wrote on 04/12/22 at 18:41:39:
@Mikhail_Golubev
The vast majority of us support you and your country and only wish our governments would do more to stop the suffering.


Of course. Usually the bad guys make a lot of noise, but definitely common sense prevail in the majority of us. The shame is that sometimes the ones on power lack a bit (or more than a bit) of this necessary common sense.

  
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Laramonet
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #25 - 04/12/22 at 18:41:39
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@Mikhail_Golubev
The vast majority of us support you and your country and only wish our governments would do more to stop the suffering.
  
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Mikhail_Golubev
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #24 - 04/12/22 at 01:09:38
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Stigma wrote on 04/06/22 at 15:36:47:


Historically, Ukraine has been an independent country since 1991.

Historically, in 1994 Russia, the UK and the US guaranteed the security of Ukraine within its borders at the time.

Yes indeed, but putin and his supporters doesn't care at all. In 2014 putin annexed Crimea, then announced his 'Novorossiya' project which led to a war in Donbass, but he hoped for much more than that. And in 2022 putin eventually sent all his army to kill us Ukrainians only because we want to live in democracy and not under fascist regimes like Russia and Belarus have.

People whom I knew already died, fighting for Ukraine in this mad putin's war. Relatives of my closest friends died in Chernihiv while trying to hide from putin's missiles. One known Ukrainian chess player is lost in the Mariupol hell; and also the wife of another chess-player cannot be found for a long time there. Most of Ukrainian children, millions (!) already are replaced because of this war. Hundreds of Ukrainian children died. And everything can get worse.

I'm really not sure whether the freedom of speech for the pro-putin trolls is justified. Maybe is some formats like this forum, when an admin is looking at what people write.
Also, the instrumental putin's supporters should preserve the right to say their word at the future trials on them. Some of them will try to apologise for what they did.
  
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SteveUK
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #23 - 04/07/22 at 08:00:30
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Bibs wrote on 04/06/22 at 21:56:47:
SteveUK wrote:
“Mainstream media is totally controlled, and the Internet is heavily censored now - post anything that is not the official narrative and its offline in about an hour“

Citation for this ‘one hour’ claim required. Or I call it for the obvious nonsense and conspiracy tosh that it is. 

SteveUK - you are encouraged to post about chess theory here. Don’t just come here to post your conspiracy nonsense. That’s not welcome. It’s a chess theory site. There are plenty of other places elsewhere for conspiracy piffle. Breitbart, Reddit, FB...

Let’s keep standards up hereabouts shall we?


I hear you, but I did not make the original post - I was rebutting the main claim made in that post - that Ukraine was innocent, when in fact they provoked Russia, who for years warned what would happen
  
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SteveUK
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #22 - 04/07/22 at 07:53:24
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Stigma wrote on 04/06/22 at 15:36:47:
It's just a distraction from the real issues.

It could well be a distraction from imminent CV-19 jabs HIV deaths, imminent global financial meltdown, NWO agenda, etc.

[quote author=76514053404C4B706E250 link=1646238123/18#18 date=1649255505]
The whole thing is just a tragic blunder by Putin.

Yes, Putin blundered - he tried to keep the Ukraine public on friendly terms and just hit the anti-aircraft sites, arms depots, radar stations, etc. - I bet now he wishes he had hit the military barracks and wiped out the Ukrainian army when they were sleeping during the launch of his attack

NATO broke their agreement not to move eastwards, Putin kept telling NATO to stop moving ever closer to Russia, NATO kept pushing eastwards, Ukraine was pleading to join NATO and have nukes

Remember the Cuban missile crisis? - USA governments are total hypocrites

[quote author=1235243724282F140A410 link=1646238123/19#19 date=1649256268]

Nonsense. It's not perfect anywhere, but there's no comparison between the media situation in the West and the censorship and draconian punishments for free speech that's going on in Russia.

You need to look at some of the alternative sites such as bitchute - UK has legislation going through now that stops everything regarding dissent of the government narrative - Canada freezing the private bank accounts of people who demonstrate against the government - Australia pushes back the court dates of businesses that don't follow the government mandates - and those business have had been shut and had their locks changed and forced into bankruptcy.

re. your first post on this is very much at odds with the official Western narrative, but it's still up after nearly four hours.

I was talking about facebook, twitter, google search results, etc. - there are bots automatically taking down content shortly after posting - latest is, some sites are scanning the posts as they are being typed, and the author is unable to post at all

  
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Bibs
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #21 - 04/06/22 at 21:56:47
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SteveUK wrote:
“Mainstream media is totally controlled, and the Internet is heavily censored now - post anything that is not the official narrative and its offline in about an hour“

Citation for this ‘one hour’ claim required. Or I call it for the obvious nonsense and conspiracy tosh that it is. 

SteveUK - you are encouraged to post about chess theory here. Don’t just come here to post your conspiracy nonsense. That’s not welcome. It’s a chess theory site. There are plenty of other places elsewhere for conspiracy piffle. Breitbart, Reddit, FB...

Let’s keep standards up hereabouts shall we?
  
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Stigma
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #20 - 04/06/22 at 15:36:47
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Quote:

Point is, big name USA politicians are up to their neck in Ukrainian graft - sons of these big name politicians are embedded in Ukrainian companies and skimming mind boggling amounts of money out of Ukraine

Point is, even if a country is corrupt (and though you're surely exaggerating I don't know to what extent Ukraine is), that does nothing at all to justify an invasion by a neighbor (that's known to be at least as corrupt). It's just a distraction from the real issues.

Quote:
Historically, half of Ukraine was Russian, the other half was no-mans-land - I suspect Russia will keep the part that was Russian, and have the other half as a buffer zone between Russia and NATO

Historically, Moscow was just a small, remote outpost of the Rus realm, way behind Kiev and other centres like Novgorod and Vladimir-Suzdal.

Historically, most of Ukraine has been ruled by Poland, Poland-Lithuania, the Ottoman Empire, an independent Cossack Hetmanate, or all of the above.

Historically, Ukraine has been an independent country since 1991.

Historically, in 1994 Russia, the UK and the US guaranteed the security of Ukraine within its borders at the time.

See? History can be used to justify many different things. The only ones that are relevant today are those from 1991 and 1994, as well as the wishes of the people of Ukraine today.

Quote:

Putin has said repeatedly that he will not tolerate NATO on the borders of Russia - yet NATO kept creeping ever closer, despite an agreement that NATO would never move eastwards

I'm aware of the geopolitics of this. But Ukranians, like all other nations, have a right to choose their own alliances. And with this invasion and senseless violence Putin has managed to alienate most Ukrainians from Russia. So in the coming decades Ukraine is even less likely to be looking east than it already was. The whole thing is just a tragic blunder by Putin.

Quote:

What? You don't think that every Western government controls the media in their country?

Mainstream media is totally controlled, and the Internet is heavily censored now - post anything that is not the official narrative and its offline in about an hour 

Nonsense. It's not perfect anywhere, but there's no comparison between the media situation in the West and the censorship and draconian punishments for free speech that's going on in Russia.

Btw. your first post on this is very much at odds with the official Western narrative, but it's still up after nearly four hours.
« Last Edit: 04/06/22 at 16:52:47 by Stigma »  
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SteveUK
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #19 - 04/06/22 at 14:44:28
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Stigma wrote on 04/06/22 at 13:29:02:
So sad to think that most of these Kremlin talking points on Ukraine actually work on many at home, due to the comprehensive media control by the authoritarian regime


What? You don't think that every Western government controls the media in their country?

Mainstream media is totally controlled, and the Internet is heavily censored now - post anything that is not the official narrative and its offline in about an hour 


  
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SteveUK
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #18 - 04/06/22 at 14:31:45
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Stigma wrote on 04/06/22 at 13:29:02:
So sad to think that most of these Kremlin talking points on Ukraine actually work on many at home, due to the comprehensive media control by the authoritarian regime.

I guess most of it is just plain lies, but even if there are some kernels of truth somewhere that would not justify the ongoing brutal "special operation" by the Putin regime. If there is a fire and suspected arson somewhere, no reasonable person would send in the most notorious arsonist in town to sort things out.


Point is, big name USA politicians are up to their neck in Ukrainian graft - sons of these big name politicians are embedded in Ukrainian companies and skimming mind boggling amounts of money out of Ukraine

Historically, half of Ukraine was Russian, the other half was no-mans-land - I suspect Russia will keep the part that was Russian, and have the other half as a buffer zone between Russia and NATO

Putin has said repeatedly that he will not tolerate NATO on the borders of Russia - yet NATO kept creeping ever closer, despite an agreement that NATO would never move eastwards
  
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SteveUK
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #17 - 04/06/22 at 14:17:05
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 04/06/22 at 13:18:06:
@SteveUK - Thanks for that post. It's always helpful to know exactly with whom we are chatting. ... I was scratching my head over your statement RE the $100 Android tablet vis-a-vis the desktop computer. But you just explained it very well.


I've been using Windows computers since Windows 95 - laptops and desktops - I was stunned that a $100 Android tablet can run Leela when Intel i5 on Windows 10 can't - I now think the age of Windows is over, and I don't care to get involved with Linux

Here in Europe we have 20 percent sales tax - so I had no inclination to upgrade to a high priced i7 or i9 desktop - my i5s are only 2 years old

Re. Ukraine - Putin can turn off the gas to Europe and kill European industry - he can also ban exports of computer chip making materials that can only be sourced from Russia - yet the European idiot politicians keep poking the bear - anybody would think there's a NWO agenda at play
  
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Stigma
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #16 - 04/06/22 at 13:29:02
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So sad to think that most of these Kremlin talking points on Ukraine actually work on many at home, due to the comprehensive media control by the authoritarian regime.

I guess most of it is just plain lies, but even if there are some kernels of truth somewhere that would not justify the ongoing brutal "special operation" by the Putin regime. If there is a fire and suspected arson somewhere, no reasonable person would send in the most notorious arsonist in town to sort things out.
  
Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #15 - 04/06/22 at 13:18:06
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@SteveUK - Thanks for that post. It's always helpful to know exactly with whom we are chatting. ... I was scratching my head over your statement RE the $100 Android tablet vis-a-vis the desktop computer. But you just explained it very well.
  
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SteveUK
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #14 - 04/06/22 at 11:50:14
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Point is, the legitimate Ukraine government was overthrown by USA agents, and a puppet installed

Ukraine government signed the Minsk agreement - but broke it immediately and killed men, women and children for 8 years - because 2 areas of Ukraine had the nerve to break away from the corrupt Ukraine

Ukraine had about a dozen bio-warfare labs specifically trying to develop a genetically engineered bio-weapon that only targeted Russian people's DNA - that's the real reason Putin sent in the military - to capture the bio-labs and evidence of what they were doing, and who was funding them - as well as putting a stop to it

Secondary objective - wipe out Ukraine military capabilities - because Ukraine has ceaselessly been threatening Russia for years - they have even said that if they ever get their hands on nuclear weapons, they will use them against Russia

Ukraine is just about the most corrupt country in the world
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #13 - 03/19/22 at 13:17:39
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Hi.

Just to make this clear. What the three big powers (Russia, US, UK) confirmed in the Budapest accords was that they wouldn't attack or threaten Ukraine themselves. Not that they would engage in collective defense of Ukraine.

The current Russian leadership threw those accords out the window. I would personally hope smaller nations see the complete disregard for of the Budapest accords as a sign not to enter into important state to state treaties with Russia specifically at present. Or maybe if needs to happen, then at least with good layers of guarantees. In the wider international community you kinda want specifically Russia to be in a lot of international treaties though. Laws of warfare treaties, nuclear arms control, space exploration and more. That's all gonna be messy if Russia totally withdraws or is completely cut out.

The one mechanism there if Ukraine got threatened was to have some debate in the UN Security council; where a permanent member like Russia can veto any substantive action. They did in 2014 and will obviously do if anything comes up again. It's not the first time veto powers there prove to be very useful. Not only for Russia to be fair though.

When it comes to Kosovo. Those bombing operations specifically were never up (to be vetoed) before the operation asfaik. Afterwards Russia wanted it stopped and got voted down before vetoes being needed. To some extent NATO did act offensively in Kosovo. Having some kind of offensive capability and using it in some situation is far removed from being anything nearing a potent (or present even) threat to a militarily powerful country like Russia though.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: Invasion of Ukraine
Reply #12 - 03/14/22 at 16:57:55
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Pawnpusher wrote on 03/04/22 at 11:56:23:
On the topic of the 1990s, didn't three nations (Russia, the UK, and the US) guarantee the Ukraine's territorial integrity if the Ukrainians surrendered their nuclear weapons?


Yes. And what did happen in the last years about this topic. Look at the complete history and you will see no innocent government in this case. Shame above them all!
  
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