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Normal Topic Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex (Read 711 times)
CanadianClub
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Re: Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex
Reply #8 - 05/18/22 at 07:59:36
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 05/17/22 at 16:03:50:
CanadianClub wrote on 05/17/22 at 09:20:57:
Which line is more usually faced at my level (I know it's a difficult question)? It's more a question of taste?

If you turn that around, 2.g3 is more often recommended for club repertoires, so that is what your black opponents likely will have seen more. And I think 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 (2...Bb4!?) 3.g3 Bb4 is due for a reassessment, there is scope for white to play differently from old theory by looking at how black is now handling 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g6 4.Bxc6.

Since you already play both 1.d4 and 1.Nf3, another option is to scout your opponents and (for now) only throw out 1.c4 when their usual answer is congenial for you.


Yes, totally agree. I answer this same on the previous post. The idea is to combine 1.d4 with 1.c4 and 1.Nf3, even if I need a total immersion period of time now playing only 1.c4 (at least at online blitz) to get a feeling. But it seems that critical answers by Black will not be faced in online blitz games, so... pleasant games for sure. Not a reflection of what I am going to face OTB against people, say, 2000 FIDE.

thx
  
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CanadianClub
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Re: Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex
Reply #7 - 05/18/22 at 07:56:41
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emary wrote on 05/17/22 at 12:35:02:
Hi CanadianClub,

my advice is to prefer 2.Nc3.
I think after 2.g3 you have lost the flexibility of 1.c4.

After 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 you have all options to  transpose to 1.d4
if Black avoids 2...e5.

After 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 it is not so easy for Black to avoid 3...Nc6.
Most important 3...f5 runs into 4.g3 (clearing g2 for the knight!) Nf6 5.d4 e4 6.Nh4

After 3...Nc6 we have the 4N-English and now you as White
choose the line:
Most important are 4.e3, 4.g3, 4.e4, 4.d3, all lines with a distinct flavour.
This flexibility is very attractive for a long-term repertoire. 

After 4.e3 4...d5?! occurs quite often beyond 2000 Elo,
the principle "reversed Open Sicilian against everything"
generally makes some sense, but not after 4.e3.
4...d5 5.Bb5 Nxc3 6.bxc3 looks like +=. 

Most solid for Black after 4.e3 is 4...Bb4 5.Qc2 Bxc3
(5...0-0 could become more complicated than Black likes)
and now White has 6.Qxc3 or
the more unbalancing (and more risky) 6.bxc3.

Starting out my advice is
Georgiev/Semkov: The Modern English 1.c4 e5.
Chess Stars 2018 
(Their second volume covers 1...c5 and 1...Nf6)

Although a bit dated their scheme
"Main Ideas - Step by Step - Games" 
makes much sense.
"Main Ideas" enable you to start playing the line at least online.

Recently Sielecki has made a Life-Time-Repertoire
about 1.c4/1.Nf3 on chessable, which is quite similiar to
Georgiev/Semkov.
As far as possible Sielecki's 1.c4-repertoire is compatible
with an 1.Nf3 move order.


I kind of agree with you in preferring 2.Nc3. It makes Black's life a little more difficult, not knowing what comes next, and I like some systems against Dutch or Benoni for example (mainline 1.d4 system I mean), so....

I have access to Cummings English book (he recommends systems with e3 instead of g3) so I can have a feeling about this systems, but I am a Accelerated Sicilian player with Black so g3 systems are more natural to me, even the fact that everybody plays g3 makes this e3 systems attractive as a mere practical choice. The Bb4 replies are the ones I am worried about. I don't know if anybody would plays those against me, it requires deep understanding that d5 systems are bad...

Thx !
  
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CanadianClub
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Re: Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex
Reply #6 - 05/18/22 at 07:51:33
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bearheart wrote on 05/17/22 at 11:48:26:
CanadianClub, you may want to check out Mihail Marin's 3 volume set on the English Opening as he covers the g3, Bg2 line in reply to most variations.


My local club owns a copy of the three volumes. They are huge. They are more a reference than something practical to study. I also have a copy of "The dynamic English", another good starting book, maybe the better. It covers 2.g3 move order too.

thx
  
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CanadianClub
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Re: Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex
Reply #5 - 05/18/22 at 07:50:08
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hicetnunc wrote on 05/17/22 at 10:21:04:
IMHO question of taste - the g3 lines may be easier to play and explore without detailed opening knowledge.

You may even consider try a little bit of both and see what you like.

I don't think you need to know tons of opening stuff to play 1.c4 at club level. You can build up knowledge gradually.


Yes, I only play 1.c4 in online blitz and mega-rapid games xDD. This is the way to get a feeling imho.

thanks
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex
Reply #4 - 05/17/22 at 16:03:50
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CanadianClub wrote on 05/17/22 at 09:20:57:
Which line is more usually faced at my level (I know it's a difficult question)? It's more a question of taste?

If you turn that around, 2.g3 is more often recommended for club repertoires, so that is what your black opponents likely will have seen more. And I think 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 (2...Bb4!?) 3.g3 Bb4 is due for a reassessment, there is scope for white to play differently from old theory by looking at how black is now handling 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g6 4.Bxc6.

Since you already play both 1.d4 and 1.Nf3, another option is to scout your opponents and (for now) only throw out 1.c4 when their usual answer is congenial for you.
  
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emary
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Re: Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex
Reply #3 - 05/17/22 at 12:35:02
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Hi CanadianClub,

my advice is to prefer 2.Nc3.
I think after 2.g3 you have lost the flexibility of 1.c4.

After 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 you have all options to  transpose to 1.d4
if Black avoids 2...e5.

After 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 it is not so easy for Black to avoid 3...Nc6.
Most important 3...f5 runs into 4.g3 (clearing g2 for the knight!) Nf6 5.d4 e4 6.Nh4

After 3...Nc6 we have the 4N-English and now you as White
choose the line:
Most important are 4.e3, 4.g3, 4.e4, 4.d3, all lines with a distinct flavour.
This flexibility is very attractive for a long-term repertoire. 

After 4.e3 4...d5?! occurs quite often beyond 2000 Elo,
the principle "reversed Open Sicilian against everything"
generally makes some sense, but not after 4.e3.
4...d5 5.Bb5 Nxc3 6.bxc3 looks like +=. 

Most solid for Black after 4.e3 is 4...Bb4 5.Qc2 Bxc3
(5...0-0 could become more complicated than Black likes)
and now White has 6.Qxc3 or
the more unbalancing (and more risky) 6.bxc3.

Starting out my advice is
Georgiev/Semkov: The Modern English 1.c4 e5.
Chess Stars 2018 
(Their second volume covers 1...c5 and 1...Nf6)

Although a bit dated their scheme
"Main Ideas - Step by Step - Games" 
makes much sense.
"Main Ideas" enable you to start playing the line at least online.

Recently Sielecki has made a Life-Time-Repertoire
about 1.c4/1.Nf3 on chessable, which is quite similiar to
Georgiev/Semkov.
As far as possible Sielecki's 1.c4-repertoire is compatible
with an 1.Nf3 move order.


  
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Re: Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex
Reply #2 - 05/17/22 at 11:48:26
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CanadianClub, you may want to check out Mihail Marin's 3 volume set on the English Opening as he covers the g3, Bg2 line in reply to most variations.
  
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hicetnunc
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Re: Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex
Reply #1 - 05/17/22 at 10:21:04
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IMHO question of taste - the g3 lines may be easier to play and explore without detailed opening knowledge.

You may even consider try a little bit of both and see what you like.

I don't think you need to know tons of opening stuff to play 1.c4 at club level. You can build up knowledge gradually.
  

48 yo, 1920 elo
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CanadianClub
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Questions about my repertoire in the c4 e5 complex
05/17/22 at 09:20:57
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Hi,

I am a full lifetime 1.d4 player who have been playing 1.Nf3 last two or three years. And now I wanted to try the English too. I am 1800 FIDE OTB and I play against 1600-2200 FIDE opposition, usually.

My question is regarding the built or a repertoire in the 1.c4 e5 line (all the other options are covered as I play also 1.Nf3). There is 2.Nc3 and 2.g3, and each move allows and denies options for Black.
  • 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 allows lines with Bb4 by Black
  • 1.e4 c5 2.g3 denies lines with Bb4 by Black (no sense tu put a Bishop there with no Knight on c3) but allows lines with a quick c6 (on move 2 or 3 after 2...Nf6).

Which line is more usually faced at my level (I know it's a difficult question)? It's more a question of taste?

I would like to play the 2.g3 lines but it seems to me that the plans with a quick c6 are more obvious and normal for Black than the Bb4 lines in the 2.Nc3 complex; it seems to me that this kind of moves comes to you after preparation, but not naturally.

And my second question is: how OK is White in the 4-Knights with 4.g3 ?

Or is preferable delay the Nc3 like in the Caruana-Sevian ?

Quote:
1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.O-O Nb6 7.b3 Be7 8.Bb2 f6 9.Na3 Be6 10.Nc2 O-O 11.e4 Qd3 12.Re1 Rad8 13.Bf1 Qd7 14.d4 exd4 15.Ncxd4 Bg4 16.Qc2 Nxd4 17.Nxd4 Rfe8 18.Rac1 c6 19.b4 Kh8 20.b5 c5 21.Nf5 Bf8 22.h3 Bxf5 23.exf5 Rxe1 24.Rxe1 c4 25.a4 Bb4 26.Re4 Qd2 27.Qxd2 Bxd2 28.Bxc4 Nxa4 29.Ba3 Nb6 30.Bb3 Nc8 31.Bd5 a6 32.b6 Nxb6 33.Bxb7 a5 34.Bc5 Na8 35.Rc4 Bb4 36.Be3 h6 37.h4 Kh7 38.g4 Rb8 39.Be4 Nb6 40.Rc7 Na4 41.g5 Nc3 42.Bf3 Nb5 43.Rd7 hxg5 44.hxg5 Kh8 45.g6 Nc3 46.Bd2 a4 47.Rd3 a3 48.Bxc3 Bxc3 49.Bd5 Bd2 50.Rxd2 Rb1+ 51.Kg2 a2 52.Bb3 Rg1+ 53.Kf3 1-0 {Caruana-Sevian - FIDE Grand Swiss · 2019}


And finally there are the Nc3 g3 e4 lines, going all-in with a Bovinnik setup... More pleasant for White but objectively equal?

thx
  
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