Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What should a benoni player play vs nf3 on move 2? (Read 6083 times)
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10764
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: What should a benoni player play vs nf3 on move 2?
Reply #7 - 06/22/22 at 06:21:24
Post Tools
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/21/22 at 21:07:22:
For me the ...g6 versions of London and Torre are more comfortable for black than the ...e6 versions,

Have you considered Queen's Indian setups, ie delaying ...d5 or not playing it at all?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1721
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: What should a benoni player play vs nf3 on move 2?
Reply #6 - 06/21/22 at 21:07:22
Post Tools
Yes, good point. There is no free lunch. For me the ...g6 versions of London and Torre are more comfortable for black than the ...e6 versions, but that may just reflect my greater experience in ...g6 setups. Actually I usually play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d6, but this is just a move order detail, available because I don't mind 3.Nc3 there. But I agree with you about the ...c5xd4 English lines. There the ...e6 setup is far easier to play than the ...g6. Still, the Accelerated Dragon / Maroczy is defensible for black, but it does require another opening.

Mtal wrote on 06/20/22 at 19:35:43:
I been wanting to cut down on my studying and hope I don't have to learn another opening (like a QGD or KID).

White, being white, can _always_ choose a move order that shakes you up and forces a different opening. Even the KID, that most universal of defenses, can be "move ordered". White simply plays 1.e4! Also after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3!? there will not be a KID.

I see two possible approaches.
  1. Knuckle down and learn a good alternate defense to 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3. And be satisfied that in order to avoid your Benoni white had to play a soft move like 2.Nf3, restricting their own choice more than black's.
  2. Find an offbeat reply and see how your results are. Not 2...Ne4?!, but maybe 2...b5!?. If your results are okay, job done for little effort. If your results are bad, then it is back to option 1.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10764
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: What should a benoni player play vs nf3 on move 2?
Reply #5 - 06/21/22 at 16:14:48
Post Tools
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/21/22 at 03:34:41:
Modern Benoni players should get what they want, though: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.d5 Bg7 5.Nc3 d6 6.e4 O-O white has a wide choice here but in almost every case black can play 7...e6 and 8...exd5.

If white omits c2-c4

The bigger problem is White not playing 4.d5 but 4.Nc3. In the end Black has no choice but entering an Accelerated Dragon. So Black might prefer 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 c5 when 4.Nc3 cxd4 is considered a less annoying version of the Maroczy. Obviously this only works for the Modern Benoni. This has also has the advantage of avoiding x...exd5 y.exd5. Benkö players can head for the Blumenfeld Gambit.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4947
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: What should a benoni player play vs nf3 on move 2?
Reply #4 - 06/21/22 at 04:55:03
Post Tools
As to that Delayed Benoni which might be reached via 2. Nf3 g6 3. c4 c5, there is a book by Ivan Ivanisevic.  

Just to mention something (in an important line) that surprised me:  after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 g6 4. Nc3 Bg7 5. e4 d6 6. Nf3 O-O 7. Bd3 e6 8. O-O ed 9. ed Bg4 10. h3 Bxf3 11. Qxf3 Nbd7 12. Qd1 Nh5 there was no mention of 13. Bd2.  Then 13...f5 14. f4 was described as better for White by Hans Ree a few years ago; back in the 2000s it was called unclear in Chess Informant.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1721
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: What should a benoni player play vs nf3 on move 2?
Reply #3 - 06/21/22 at 03:34:41
Post Tools
Another idea is to play a KID against quiet lines. If white plays a delayed c2-c4 you answer ...c7-c5. Benko players might not be completely satisfied but in Benko's original book there were some examples that started out as a King's Indian.
https://www.amazon.com/Benko-Gambit-Pal/dp/0890582009

Modern Benoni players should get what they want, though: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 c5 4.d5 Bg7 5.Nc3 d6 6.e4 O-O white has a wide choice here but in almost every case black can play 7...e6 and 8...exd5.

If white omits c2-c4 you can skip most of the KID theory and just play chess. Anyway you can't always get a Benoni as black. What if white starts 1.Nf3, or 1.g3, or 1.d3, etc. ?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2338
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: What should a benoni player play vs nf3 on move 2?
Reply #2 - 06/20/22 at 22:52:45
Post Tools
Anything really, it’s up to you.

Typical is 2...e6 and you can play ...c5 when c4 comes. A different angle to get in, as they say.   

Most players at club level will likely just plough on with 1.d4 2.c4
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mtal
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 223
Joined: 05/15/07
Re: What should a benoni player play vs nf3 on move 2?
Reply #1 - 06/20/22 at 20:40:52
Post Tools
Sorry for the typo, I meant the knight goes to c4.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mtal
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 223
Joined: 05/15/07
What should a benoni player play vs nf3 on move 2?
06/20/22 at 19:35:43
Post Tools
Hi all,

So I am considering playing the benoni and was wondering what to do against d4 nf6, nf3? I was thinking of playing d5 but what if c4 is played? Also if I try c5 on move 2, isn't that bad cause white can play d5 and hop a knight to the c5 square? Arrrrruuugghhhhh I been wanting to cut down on my studying and hope I don't have to learn another opening (like a QGD or KID). Any reconmendations would be great. Also if there is a book that might help, please reconmend one. Thanks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo