Latest Updates:
Normal Topic Barmen Catalan (Read 945 times)
RosemarysBaby
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 46
Joined: 08/29/22
Re: Barmen Catalan
Reply #8 - 01/11/23 at 07:06:36
Post Tools
I was just thinking about it and in that exchange line, black could also get creative with Ndf6.
Not that it would make much of an impact on a repertoire though, white could just wait out Ngf6 before cxd5 to reduce this option. Just a thought.

Maybe should discuss these lines on a separate thread? I don't know if that's the etiquette here... I did read some about users not liking the conversation being subdivided in a 2017 thread.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1628
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: Barmen Catalan
Reply #7 - 01/10/23 at 16:35:33
Post Tools
The Seirawan - Andersson, 1986 game is here: https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1020408

RE "Barmen" : I wouldn't consider these opening tools names reliable, they are more hit and miss. They seem to go back to a common source -- my educated guess is Eric Schiller.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RosemarysBaby
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 46
Joined: 08/29/22
Re: Barmen Catalan
Reply #6 - 01/10/23 at 15:26:52
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 01/10/23 at 15:12:07:
RosemarysBaby wrote on 01/10/23 at 07:44:22:
You make a great point. I personally like this idea:
4...exd5 5.Bf4 Ngf6 6.e3 Nh5
Jozarov made this video talking about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7C0_kR69Sk


Historical tidbit:  that line 5. cd ed 6. Bf4 c6 7. e3 Nh5 appeared in the NIC Yearbook in 1986 (in a game Seirawan-Andersson), with Black's seventh adorned with an exclamation mark.

I recall that the Yearbook, much later, used the term "the 4...Nbd7 complex."


Mmm, that's a wonderful thing about the Queen's gambit; the history. The positions that've been worked on over generations are a story about the game itself... Will definitely search up that game now Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4855
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Barmen Catalan
Reply #5 - 01/10/23 at 15:12:07
Post Tools
RosemarysBaby wrote on 01/10/23 at 07:44:22:
You make a great point. I personally like this idea:
4...exd5 5.Bf4 Ngf6 6.e3 Nh5
Jozarov made this video talking about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7C0_kR69Sk


Historical tidbit:  that line 5. cd ed 6. Bf4 c6 7. e3 Nh5 appeared in the NIC Yearbook in 1986 (in a game Seirawan-Andersson), with Black's seventh adorned with an exclamation mark.

I recall that the Yearbook, much later, used the term "the 4...Nbd7 complex."
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RosemarysBaby
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 46
Joined: 08/29/22
Re: Barmen Catalan
Reply #4 - 01/10/23 at 09:30:30
Post Tools
Idk about the naming convention. I'm just calling it that since it's what you get when you plug 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7 into most opening tools. Ofc the main play leads to the Orthodox QGD. A line that doesn't get its laurels for standing solid since Lasker times. I also think it deserves re-evaluation, some of the analysis on the main lines is ancient.

Anyways, in my opinion, there is a point in addressing the Barmen variation individually of the Orthodox:
1. There are lines unique to this variation such as 5.Bf4 dxc4 and 5.e3 a6
2. There are move-order kinks that distinguish it from the Be7 move-order, Such as avoiding the Harrwitz attack, getting into the case-in-point Catalan line. As well as these Ragozin transpositions: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Bg5 Bb4 and 6... h6 7. Bh4 Bb4
« Last Edit: 01/10/23 at 15:12:56 by RosemarysBaby »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 619
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Barmen Catalan
Reply #3 - 01/10/23 at 08:10:29
Post Tools
I guess the first four moves make the Barmen line? I have never heard of it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RosemarysBaby
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 46
Joined: 08/29/22
Re: Barmen Catalan
Reply #2 - 01/10/23 at 07:44:22
Post Tools
You make a great point. I personally like this idea:
4...exd5 5.Bf4 Ngf6 6.e3 Nh5
Jozarov made this video talking about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7C0_kR69Sk

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10746
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Barmen Catalan
Reply #1 - 01/10/23 at 07:23:59
Post Tools
My thought is that I would play 4.cxd5 entering an Exchange with Bf4.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RosemarysBaby
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 46
Joined: 08/29/22
Barmen Catalan
01/09/23 at 18:03:35
Post Tools
I've been compiling a repertoire idea with The QGD-classical and the Barmen line. I have high faith in classical QGD positions, especially with some of the recent developments with Nh5 in the exchange line. Anyways the Challenge of getting a solid and active Catalan for black has caused trouble for many players myself included.

I stumbled upon this alternative Catalan line, using an alternative move order to reach the Barmen.
It has performed well in limited practice.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nbd7 4.g3 dxc4
So in concept black will be quicker to untangle the queenside and maybe gain some active play instead of the many dxc4 lines that just end up liquefying. I have no idea if there are resources on this line besides the games.

The play could follow something like this:
5.Bg2 Rb8 6.a4 a6 7.a5 Bd6 8.O-O b5 9.axb6 Nxb6
Where black has some interesting prospects like Bd7->Bb5 or Ne7->Nc6->Nb4
or maybe:
7...Bb4+ 8.Bd2 Bd6 with some dynamic differences.
On the surface, the lines look attractive with all of the black pieces out and working.
Any thoughts?

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo