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Normal Topic Repertoire without the Maroczy Bind (for white) (Read 1152 times)
MW
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Re: Repertoire without the Maroczy Bind (for white)
Reply #6 - 03/24/23 at 02:53:07
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There is always 1 c4 c5 2 Nf3 when 2...Nf6 can be answered by 3 b3 as given by Demuth via the move order 1 Nf3 c5 2 c4 etc..in his Modernized Reti book. He devotes around 22 pages to it. Only downside as he points out is that 2...g6 does prevent the b3 option so you do need additional material to cover this.

Not sure how he is going to cover it but Sam Shankland will be releasing Part 2 of his Life Time English Repertoire on Chessable in the near future which will cover the Symmetrical English.

I suspect he will be using the 1 c4 2 g3 move order he did in part 1 but don't know for sure.

All the best.
  
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Re: Repertoire without the Maroczy Bind (for white)
Reply #5 - 02/22/23 at 17:30:11
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Re 5. a3, once again there is one "ancient" game I readily recall:  Lobron-Kavalek.   Smiley
  
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RosemarysBaby
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Re: Repertoire without the Maroczy Bind (for white)
Reply #4 - 02/22/23 at 17:13:51
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nocteus wrote on 02/22/23 at 11:52:32:
Thanks both for your answers!

Do you have any resources I could study about it? I am wondering whether it should transpose into a g3 system later, or lead to more original setups (perhaps with e3).


The b4 plan and a kingside fianchetto go hand in hand, there are some slight differences between 1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.a3 and 5.e3 With b4 white can get early pressure on c5 and hinder black from playing e6->Nge7->d5, with e3 white can look to do said plan themselves.
As I said it's an old line so most of the materials I know on it are dated. To get a basic grasp of the ideas you could study the large volume of games. Yasser for example used to play it very creatively:
https://www.365chess.com/search_result.php?search=1&m=9&n=4136&ms=c4.c5.Nc3.Nc6....
I could swear to God I'd seen his online lecture on it. but just couldn't find it. If you are subscribed to ChessPub there are most likely annotated games on the line.

For waterproof ideas you'd wanna have access to correspondence games or go over the line with an engine, this is how I treat all theoretically irrelevant lines, since the output of courses and books on them is slow and of varying quality. Assuming your main focus is practical play, I'd spare your money and time for your main repertoire and just get familiar with the flow of these positions by analyzing your and others' games.



  
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nocteus
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Re: Repertoire without the Maroczy Bind (for white)
Reply #3 - 02/22/23 at 11:52:32
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Thanks both for your answers!

RosemarysBaby wrote on 02/22/23 at 04:26:55:
[quote author=020701060D0D06175552630 link=1677027773/1#1 date=1677036318] However with 2.Nc3/g3 white could also opt to play these setups with e3->Nge2, e4 or even ye' old a3->Rb1->b4 before moving the knight.


Do you have any resources I could study about it? I am wondering whether it should transpose into a g3 system later, or lead to more original setups (perhaps with e3).
  
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RosemarysBaby
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Re: Repertoire without the Maroczy Bind (for white)
Reply #2 - 02/22/23 at 04:26:55
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 02/22/23 at 03:25:18:
If you don't want to play d2-d4 ...c5xd4 Nf3xd4, then I recommend you don't play Ng1-f3 so early. E.g. 1.c4 c5 2.g3 or 1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3. You would only play Nf3 when black commits to an ...e7-e6 setup. Burgess (2020) An Idiot-Proof Chess Opening Repertoire recommends this way for white. I think Kosten (1999) The Dynamic English also recommends this way, but I don't have this older book.


Fully agree, although it's worth mentioning that 2.g3 and 2.Nc3 give black flexibility and reliability in the c5-Nc6-g6-Bg7 arrangements, the same problem that op faces when trying to avoid the Maroczy.
[EDIT: Should probably mention that 2.Nc3 g6 is the correct order to reach the arrangement seeing that 2...Nc6 Nf3 3.g6 e3 is far more annoying than 2.Nc3 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.e3 where black is quick with Nf6->d5 countering the d4 push effectively]
However with 2.Nc3/g3 white could also opt to play these setups with e3->Nge2, e4 or even ye' old a3->Rb1->b4 before moving the knight.
The Bind is very similar to the other good 2.Nf3 lines, a small positional advantage often having to do with controlling d5 so if op is avoiding it from purely stylistic reasons 2.Nc3/g3 is definitely the way to go.
« Last Edit: 02/22/23 at 19:01:15 by RosemarysBaby »  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Repertoire without the Maroczy Bind (for white)
Reply #1 - 02/22/23 at 03:25:18
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If you don't want to play d2-d4 ...c5xd4 Nf3xd4, then I recommend you don't play Ng1-f3 so early. E.g. 1.c4 c5 2.g3 or 1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3. You would only play Nf3 when black commits to an ...e7-e6 setup. Burgess (2020) An Idiot-Proof Chess Opening Repertoire recommends this way for white. I think Kosten (1999) The Dynamic English also recommends this way, but I don't have this older book.
  
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nocteus
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Repertoire without the Maroczy Bind (for white)
02/22/23 at 01:02:53
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Hi,
I'd like to build a repertoire as white starting with 1.c4. Yet I'd like to avoid playing the Maroczy which I do not enjoy to play.
Cummings and Sielecki both recommend different setups in the Maroczy

So after 1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 and 1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6, do you have setups or books to recommend?

Thanks!
  
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