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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The French Defense Revisited (Read 15682 times)
Nernstian59
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #10 - 04/27/23 at 19:10:38
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The French Defense Revisited is now among the upcoming items listed on the "Announcements" page on the Niggemann website. Perhaps Thinkers Publishing responded to the comments in this forum since the excerpt has been expanded beyond what was given on Forward Chess.  It now shows additional pages with the Table of Contents for the chapter on the Winawer plus about a dozen pages of the analysis of White's 4th and 5th move deviations from the main line. 

Like Anon in Reply #3, I'm not a fan of the layout. For example, the excerpt begins the analysis of 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 on page 103, but then proceeds to cover other White 4th moves. We don't get back to Black's response to 4.a3 until six pages later.

There's also a bit of editorial untidiness since the main Table of Contents refers to the "Winawer Attack" (a name that I haven't seen before), while the Chapter 5 calls it the usual "Winawer Variation" throughout.
  
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ForwardChess
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #9 - 04/20/23 at 16:17:23
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We will definitely share the feedback with tbe publishers.

At the same time, we want to see what we can do on our own, 
providing helpful info and not upsetting the publishers. 

By the way, we are working on a new tool (currently in internal testing) 
that allows you to search any particular position across the entire library (millions of positions overall). It might be helpful for this purpose, though it doesn't replace the need to have more meaningful descriptions.
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #8 - 04/20/23 at 15:50:01
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The table of contents carries the reader out to move 3 in the The French Defense Revisited. As noted before, Kotronias's book on the King's Indian has an Index of variations that goes out to move 25. I suggest something between move 3 and 25. Somewhat arbitrarily, perhaps move 9 may be a reasonable guide or rule.
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #7 - 04/20/23 at 14:59:22
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Sometimes I think the index of variations may be too complete. For example Kotronias' book, volume 2 of the Mar Del Plata, King's Indian Defense has an index of varitations that goes out to move 25! You can see this by going to Forward Chess. Quality Chess in the publisher.

If I was committed to playing the KID, I might still buy the book. However, I can also see that one could use the index of variations as a skeleton for a repertoire, fleshing it out with games from a games data base.

Perhaps that Index should have been scaled back or disguised in some way.
  
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tp2205
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #6 - 04/20/23 at 03:51:30
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ForwardChess wrote on 04/19/23 at 16:48:05:
We would definitely appreciate your advice and help on how to present the content/samples. Generally speaking, we try to follow the samples that the publishers put out, to avoid, you know, arguments about giving away too much.

It seems that in this case the TOC is not good enough.
What would you recommend we did? All help is welcome!


The TOC is not enough since it does not provide any information beyond we cover the French Defence with sample games and exercises (the only thing I understood was that after 3, Nc3 the book covers Bb4 and after 3. Nd2 Nc6) but which lines in the WInawer (e.g. allowing Qxg7 and if so the ...d4 lines or more classical lines, 7...O-O, 6...Qc7, 6...Qa5, 4...b6) I have no idea, similarly there is no indication of what system is chosen against the Advance Variation. 

But as Anon posted 3... c5 4. ed Qd5 is also covered. The current TOC gives no indication of that.

Ideally I would like
- a sample chapter/part of a chapter to be able to get an idea of the style and depth of analysis (current chapter is fine)- - 
- (optionally abbreviated) index of variations (for me the most important)
- one sample exercise 
- one sample game 

The last two would not be necessary if exercises/games are just a small part of the book, however since they seem to cover a large portion of the book (Part 2 and 3) including them would be very helpful.

Also the TOC does not include page numbers so there is no way to guess the relative size of the various parts. The exercises could be an afterthought covered in a few pages or each exercise might get the royal treatment with detailed discussion of plans, variations etc.


  
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MW
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #5 - 04/19/23 at 22:07:45
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Understand the publishers dilemma around not giving too much away but I also think that buying a chess book on good faith might be a thing of the past so perhaps time to change..

Quality Chess do an excellent job of producing a contents page for their upcoming publications. However, if the publisher wants to keep things a little closer to the chest then a similar index offered by Chess Stars for their Play to win with 1...b6 (which you have on your website) would be a good start.

The problem you might have is that Thinkers don't do a full index only a chapter index at the beginning of each chapter. So I suspect the publisher is going to have to get involved and produce more detail if things are to change...
  
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #4 - 04/19/23 at 16:48:05
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We would definitely appreciate your advice and help on how to present the content/samples. Generally speaking, we try to follow the samples that the publishers put out, to avoid, you know, arguments about giving away too much.

It seems that in this case the TOC is not good enough.
What would you recommend we did? All help is welcome!
  
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #3 - 04/19/23 at 02:51:55
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Against 3 Nc3 the book covers the main line of the Winawer (3...Bb4 4 e5 c5 5 a3 Bc3 6 bc3 Ne7) and the 6... Qa5 line and against 3 Nd2 it offers traditional 3... c5 4. ed Qd5 and 3...Nc6. Lots of illustrative games and plenty of explanations which I like.  The book is aimed at "average" players which I take to mean club players and initial impressions are favourable. I don't love the layout of Thinkers books but it is ok. 

I agree btw that they should tell readers what lines are covered. I had to buy it to find out.
  
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Nernstian59
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #2 - 04/17/23 at 18:48:42
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I share your frustration regarding the sample pages. They give some information on the lines recommended against 2.b3 and 2.Qe2, but there's absolutely nothing on the main French lines.  It almost seems like the sample was designed to withhold that information from potential buyers of the book.  Perhaps it's selective memory on my part, but this sort of inadequate preview appears to be happening with some regularity with books and and other products, such as Chessable courses.  A potential buyer gets the impression that the publisher is deliberately being vague since it's felt that giving buyers more information may hurt sales.

In the past, I've written to Thinkers Publishing about a problem with one of their previews.  In that case, the table of contents had been omitted, so it was impossible to know what was covered in the book.  I received a friendly reply from TP saying that they would correct the error, but nothing was ever done.  Given that experience, I don't know if there's a point to trying again with this new French book.
  
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LaurentB
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Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #1 - 04/17/23 at 12:19:23
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Thanks for asking, I was about to ask the same question 
How can they imagine selling a product online with zero visibility on the content ?
  
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tp2205
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The French Defense Revisited
04/17/23 at 11:52:43
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There is a new book out on the French (on forwardchess): 

    The French Defense Revisited: A Practical Guide for Black by Zlatanovic & Jacimovic

The sample pages are useless. Does anybody know which lines are actually covered?
  
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