Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The French Defense Revisited (Read 10179 times)
Nernstian59
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/15/21
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #44 - 03/03/24 at 22:18:59
Post Tools
nestor - Thanks for the information. For some reason, I was suspecting that Krishnater's suggestion would be something other than 6...Ne7. Perhaps because the list of chapters referred to the "Winawer main line" rather than the "Main Line Winawer". At any rate, 6...Nc6 was initially a surprise to me. On further reflection, it's understandable since the move has become popular in the last couple years.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
nestor
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 138
Location: London
Joined: 05/10/09
Gender: Male
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #43 - 03/03/24 at 08:26:05
Post Tools
As far as I know Krishnater proposes 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nc6. I looked at this for myself some years ago, but I never got it on the board as very few of my opponents played 3.Nc3 and nobody played 4.e5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Nernstian59
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/15/21
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #42 - 03/02/24 at 21:51:01
Post Tools
Getting back to The French Defense Revisited and Reply #37 specifically, I was hoping that additional information on the relative merits of 7...Qc7 and 7...Qa5 vs 7.h4 might eventually be obtained from Beat the French Winawer Variation by Kotronias and Ivanov. This book supposedly recommends meeting the Winawer with 7.h4 and has been displayed on the "Expected" page of the Thinkers Publishing website for quite some time.  However, I recently saw that this page was undated in February, and the Winawer book is no longer shown.  An email inquiry to the publisher has gone unanswered, so it's looking like the book has been cancelled. On a more positive note, Modern Chess has just released Modern French Defense: Complete Repertoire for Black by IM Kushager Krishnater. It appears to be a video course that was originally released by thechessworld, but the Modern Chess version has the advantage of having the variations available in PGN form as well.  Krishnater recommends the Winawer, but it's not clear to me from the chapter list for the course if he's covering 7.h4 or avoiding it with something like the Portisch-Hook variation (6...Qa5).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Nernstian59
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/15/21
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #41 - 02/09/24 at 23:13:57
Post Tools
kylemeister - Thanks for pointing out that video! It's nice to have some details about what Sokolov covers in his Winawer chapter.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4929
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #40 - 02/09/24 at 19:50:03
Post Tools
I came across IM Andras Toth praising the Sokolov book and talking about some of the Winawer content.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gs-zWMr-kg
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Nernstian59
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/15/21
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #39 - 02/08/24 at 03:57:10
Post Tools
kylemeister - I've been wondering about the Winawer content in Sokolov's book as well. The previews I've seen only give snippets of Chapters 4 and 6. So far I haven't found anything from Chapter 5, which is the one covering the Winawer. New in Chess gives the book's publication date as January 30th, and apparently Niggemann has it in stock. Perhaps one of our European friends will have it soon and can provide some details. In the preface, Sokolov says, "the book is aimed at middlegame improvement; however, I also share a sizeable portion of my opening knowledge". Thus we might get a few theoretical nuggets as well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4929
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #38 - 02/07/24 at 19:15:03
Post Tools
Regarding the positional Winawer stuff, I wonder if Ivan Sokolov has anything to say about it in his new book. (It's "not a theory book"; it's about some 1. e4 structures, and has a Winawer chapter.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FreeRepublic
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 784
Location: Georgia
Joined: 06/08/17
Gender: Male
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #37 - 01/29/24 at 01:37:24
Post Tools
Nernstian59 wrote on 01/27/24 at 23:13:39:
Those interested in more details on The French Defense Revisited can take a look at this thread


Thanks for the re-direct as I'd forgotten. To be clear, I don't have this book but have looked at information available at ForwardChess.

After 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bc3 Ne7 7. h4!? Qc7!? is suggested by several authors (Giri, Miedema, Jacimovic and Zlatanovic). It's complicated but I think it offers chances for both sides. It seems that Jacimovic and Zlatanovic offer a second line with 7...Qa5. It would be nice if Black has a second viable defense.

Their repertoire includes the Guimard variation against the Tarrash. I've never looked at that much. There are unique Guimard lines. Also, it seems one would have to learn the "universal system" usually seen from 3...Nf6. For example after 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nc6 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. e5 Nd7 6. Bd3 Nb4 7. Be2 c5 8. c3 Nc6 9. Bd3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4929
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #36 - 10/08/23 at 23:55:00
Post Tools
I see that the position before 18. Nf6 in Golyak-Gaiduk appeared in Pachman's Modern Chess Tactics (1973), and was used (giving Pachman as the source) in the Bratko-Kopec Test (1982).

Alexey Suetin in his 1965 book Modern Chess Opening Theory thought that 8...c4 "leads to a complicated game with approximately equal chances for both sides."
« Last Edit: 10/09/23 at 02:10:11 by kylemeister »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Nernstian59
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/15/21
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #35 - 10/08/23 at 22:48:08
Post Tools
Another positional Winawer with Black playing an early ...c5-c4 was featured in the My Best Move column in the new October 2023 issue of Chess Life. The game was submitted by 91 year old FM Isay Golyak and has him playing White against Boris Gaiduk in the 1949 Soviet U20 Team Final in Moscow. (Golyak moved to the US in 1989). The game started 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.a4 Qa5 8.Bd2 and now 8...c4 (a move earlier than So-Abdusattorov and Smyslov-Botvinnik). The game continued 9.Ne2 Bd7 10.Ng3 Nbc6 11.Nh5 Rg8 12.Be2 0-0-0 13.0-0 Rdf8 14.f4 f5 15.Rf3 Nb8 16.Bc1 Bxa4 17.Ba3 Re8, when White uncorked his "best move": 18.Nf6!. After 18...gxf6 19.exf6 Rgf8 20.Bxe7 Rf7 21.Re3 Nd7 22.Bh5 Rexe7 23.fxe7 Rxe7 24.Qe1, White soon won.

With ...c4 coming so early (on the 8th move), it's no surprise that Moles called it "premature". (He references Golyak-Gaiduk in his analysis). In the column, Golyak says he was "amazed" to see his game published in Shakhmaty v SSSR, where it was annotated by Peter Romanovsky, who says of 8...c4, "there was no need to rush to lock the center. Better was 8...Nbc6". BTW - The publication of what might otherwise be an obscure game may be the reason it was available to Moles and could also be why it appears in the Mega Database.

It's conventional wisdom that playing ...c4 on the 8th move is premature, and in this case conventional wisdom is likely correct.  However, 8...c4 been tried by strong players such as Boleslavsky (vs. Keres 1941), Uhlmann (vs. Robatsch 1956), Spassky (vs. Gipslis 1958) and Szabo (vs. R.Byrne 1975).

Golyak notes that after studying a Smyslov game where the future world champion played Nf3-g5-h3-f4-h5 to attack the undefended g7-pawn, he came up with the maneuver in the game where Ne2-g3-h5 brings the knight to h5 more quickly.

Incidentally, I noticed that the ECO code for the game was given as C19 in Chess Life, so that's another place that hasn't adopted the switch I mentioned in reply #28.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Nernstian59
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/15/21
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #34 - 10/06/23 at 22:06:50
Post Tools
kylemeister - Thanks for pointing out the So-Abdusattorov game in Reply #27. I was curious about the position after 9...c4 and found that its first occurrence in the Mega Database was in the famous Smyslov-Botvinnik game from the 1944 Soviet Championship. The Chessbase version of the game was annotated by Rainer Knaak, who marked 9...c4 with a ?. He noted that Black usually waits for White to commit to Bf1-e2 before advancing the c-pawn. He felt that closing the position with 9...c4? was weak since White can develop the bishop to g2 or h3 (obviously after g2-g3). This is similar to the Nunn/NCO line that you mentioned.

It turns out that Smyslov-Botvinnik is the first game in Giddins' The French Winawer Move by Move. Giddins is more charitable, marking 9...c4 with !?. He says that it's more common to retain the central tension with 9...Bd7 and adds that 9...c4 would allow 10.g3 with the idea of Bh3, O-O,  Nh4, and f4-f5, which is also the same general idea of the flank development of the bishop given by Knaak and Nunn.

Another old book bit is Moles' analysis in his The French Defence - Main Line Winawer. He follows Boleslavsky-Barcza for several moves: 10.g3 Bd7 11.Bg2 0-0-0 12.0-0 f5 13.exf6 gxf6 14.Re1 Ng6 15.Bh6 Rhg8 16.Qd2 Rde8. Now Moles quotes an even older book, Schwarz, which has an evaluation of =/+. In contrast, Stockfish gives White a slight edge. Moles called 10.Bg2 "illogical" and preferred 10.Bh3. He quotes the game Raetsch-Liebert, Lasker Memorial Berlin 1962, where White achieved a winning edge but then "went off the rails" and lost. In introducing his section on 9...c4, Moles says the move "is considered inaccurate since Black has nothing to fear from 9...Bd7 10.c4 and theoretically should wait for White to commit his king bishop to e2 or d3 before closing the queenside." He concludes the section with  "White seems to have chances for the initiative with 10.g3; hence Black should avoid 9...c4, which has no special counter-virtues to justify the inconvenience of having to meet 10.g3".

In line with his comment of waiting for White to play Bf1 e2 or Bf1-d3, Moles considers 9...Bd7 10.Be2 c4 to be fine. It's his main line, as I noted back in Reply #16.

So the consensus from 1975 (Moles) to 2013 (Giddins) seems to be that 9...c4 is premature, and it's better to wait for White to develop his king bishop. More recently, however, 9...c4 has been played with some regularity.  ChessBase marks 9...c4 as a "hot" move.  Thus, it could be part of the apparent trend of Black closing the position by advancing his c-pawn and thereby aiming to play more strategically. It's interesting that Abdusattorov played the move. He's the strongest player to adopt it in recent years, although it was "just" in a blitz game.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Nernstian59
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/15/21
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #33 - 10/06/23 at 19:29:08
Post Tools
kylemeister - Thanks for those quotes regarding Fischer's attitude toward 7.Qg4.  They're quite pertinent, especially the one from Robert Byrne, since he's relating what Fischer told him directly.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Nernstian59
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/15/21
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #32 - 10/06/23 at 19:25:54
Post Tools
Dink Heckler wrote on 10/06/23 at 11:14:59:
I never realised that ECO codes changed - seems disconcerting.

I agree.  It was rather unsettling to open that new edition of ECO and find that switch.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FreeRepublic
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 784
Location: Georgia
Joined: 06/08/17
Gender: Male
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #31 - 10/06/23 at 13:29:27
Post Tools
Dink Heckler wrote on 10/06/23 at 11:14:59:
I never realised that ECO codes changed - seems disconcerting.


Same here.

I can see that changing classifications over time has some merit, but perhaps not enough.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dink Heckler
God Member
*****
Offline


Love-Forty

Posts: 884
Joined: 02/01/07
Gender: Male
Re: The French Defense Revisited
Reply #30 - 10/06/23 at 11:14:59
Post Tools
Orthogonal to the main discussion, but I never realised that ECO codes changed - seems disconcerting.

Reminds me of the Simpson's quote:
"I used to be with 'it', but then they changed what 'it' was!"
  

'Am I any good at tactics?'
'Computer says No!'
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo