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Normal Topic Classical Sicilian 6.Be3, dubious or tricky? (Read 1868 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Classical Sicilian 6.Be3, dubious or tricky?
Reply #7 - 07/19/23 at 20:55:01
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(Oops -- also Leko's bishop was still on f1, rather than e2. How did I miss that? Sigh.)
  
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Re: Classical Sicilian 6.Be3, dubious or tricky?
Reply #6 - 07/18/23 at 17:10:02
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A semi-random thing I noticed: a game between GMs this year (Lupulescu-Gormally) with 6. Bb5 Bd7 7. Be3 continued 7...a6 8.Be2 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 e5 10.Qd2 h6 11.O-O-O Rc8 12.f3 Qa5 13.Kb1 Be7 14.g4 Be6 15.a3 Rxc3 16.Qxc3 Qxc3 17.bxc3 d5 18.exd5 Nxd5. That resembles a bit of Richter-Rauzer theory; with the pawn on g2 instead of g4 it is Leko-Kovalev 1992, which appeared in Informator and subsequent editions of ECO (evaluated as"with compensation").
  
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Kerangali
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Re: Classical Sicilian 6.Be3, dubious or tricky?
Reply #5 - 07/14/23 at 17:07:30
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Hi,
Continuing with the 6.Be3 Ng4 Classical, I could check Cheparinov's recommandations in his modern-chess course. Some interesting points:
1) He considers 7.Nxc6 to be White's "most principled reaction", cutting off the pressure on Nd4. After 7...bxc6 8.Bc1 Qb6 9.Qd2 e5 (diagram), the position is exactly the same as with Be3-g5 h7-h6 Bg5-c1 inserted (last diagram of post #1), except that Black's pawn is on h7 instead of h6.
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So, White can have the position with pawn h7 or h6. No big difference, except that after 9...e5 10.Bc4 (preventing Be6), Cheparinov's ...f5 idea (no further discussed here) works well with the h7 setup, but wouldn't work with h6 setup because of possible invasion by Qe2-h5. Fortunately, when the pawn is on h6 Black can equalize by central policy: Be7, 0-0, Rd8 not fearing backrank tactics, Nf6-d7-b6 with Qb7 at some point, and finally Be6 when White's bishop leaves c4. With his pawn on h7, Black must play h7-h6 at some point, making the whole process more risky.
2) Back to the original line: after 6.Be3 Ng4 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bc1 Qb6, 9.Bb5 Bd7 is forced and somewhat defuses White's early Be3. Can't White improve with 6.Bb5 Bd7 7.Be3 !? (diagram)
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Now 7...Ng4 is less satisfying in view of 8.Nxc6! Nxe3 (8...bxc6 9.Bxc6 +/-) 9.Nxd8 Nxd1 10.Nxf7 Nxc3 11.Bxd7+ Kxf7 12.bxc3 e6 (diagram)
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Stockfish is not impressed by White's advantage but it's likely two results.
However, White seems to keep an edge after all other Black 7th moves, the lesser evil being perhaps 7...g6 (diagram) and now:
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a) 8.Qd2 Ng4 9.Nb3 Bg7 =
b) 8.h3 Bg7 9.0-0 0-0 threatening Nxd4 10.a4 a6 11.Be2 Rc8 is an ok Bb5 anti-sicilian (0.00)
c) 8.f3 (!? Cheparinov), and here Black can play 8...a6 (or 8...Bg7 rejoining a famous Carlsen-MVL game, but with ...a6 now, Black hopes to play Rb8 rather than Rc8 in said game if White plays 9.Nxc6).

All in all, if White wants a nice Be3 Classical, I think he should play 6.Bb5 Bd7 7.Be3 rather than 6.Be3      
« Last Edit: 07/14/23 at 19:11:26 by Kerangali »  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: Classical Sicilian 6.Be3, dubious or tricky?
Reply #4 - 07/12/23 at 18:00:29
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FreeRepublic wrote on 07/08/23 at 15:32:53:
I think 6...e5 should work also.

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Be3 e5 7. Ndb5 a6 8. Na3


El Jawich, Chessable, follows 6Be3 e5 7Nf3. I think 6Be3 is tricky, as is the Classical Sicilian as a whole.
  
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Re: Classical Sicilian 6.Be3, dubious or tricky?
Reply #3 - 07/09/23 at 17:28:07
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Kerangali wrote on 07/08/23 at 11:23:12:
White has just one move, 8.Bb5, but it turns out to be adequate since after 8...Bd7 9.0-0! the Bd7 is overloaded and White has a pleasant position after Black's best  9...Qxd4 10.Bxc6 Qxd1 11.Bxd7+ Kxd7 12.Raxd1 (diagram):


1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Be3 Ng4 7. Bg5 Qb6 8. Bb5 Bd7 9. O-O Qd4 10. Bc6 Qd1 11. Bd7 Kd7 12. Rad1.
White has such a lead in development, one might think he has the advantage. As you rightly point out, the game is about equal.

Kerangali wrote on 07/08/23 at 11:23:12:
improve with 7...h6!? at once (diagram):


1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Be3 Ng4 7. Bg5 h6. Here theory continues with the natural 8.Bh4. However, I think your move, 8Bc1 is better.

More attention has been devoted to:  1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. Be3 Ng4 7. Bb5 Ne3
8. fe3 Bd7 9. O-O e6 10. Bc6 bc6, where Black is considered allright.

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Re: Classical Sicilian 6.Be3, dubious or tricky?
Reply #2 - 07/08/23 at 15:32:53
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6...Ng4 has been the preferred solution for some time. You've looked deeper than me and I have nothing to add.

I think 6...e5 should work also.

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Be3 e5 7. Ndb5 a6 8. Na3

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This is a Sveshnikov where White played 7.Be3. Instead, 7.Bg5, 7Nd5, and 7a4 have been preferred. One wouldn't expect 7Be3 to cause Black any great problems but the game can still get complicated. One possible continuation is:

8...Rb8 9. Be2 b5 10. Nd5 Ne4 11. Bf3 f5 12. O-O

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« Last Edit: 07/08/23 at 19:09:09 by FreeRepublic »  
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kylemeister
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Re: Classical Sicilian 6.Be3, dubious or tricky?
Reply #1 - 07/08/23 at 15:25:03
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I see that ECO in 2021 had 7...h6 8. Bh4 (only move addressed) as leading to "unclear," and 7...Qb6 as leading to +/=. That's a change from 2002, when it had both of Black's 7th moves as unclear. The difference in evaluation is in the line 7...Qb6 8. Bb5 Bd7 9. 0-0 h6 (instead of 9...Qxd4, which both had as leading to +/=).

Side note:  Rohde is a GM (since '88).
  
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Kerangali
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Classical Sicilian 6.Be3, dubious or tricky?
07/08/23 at 11:23:12
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Hi,
When learning the Classical Sicilian for Black, the usual advice is "check theory for Bc4 and Bg5 lines (and decide between Kozul or Be7 lines vs Bg5), and find your own solutions against other moves (usually boiling down to ...e5 or ...g6 setups). In this respect I'd like to share some experience with the 6.Be3 line, which looks like a beginner's blunder in view of 6...Ng4 7.Bg5 Qb6 (diagram): 
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White has just one move, 8.Bb5, but it turns out to be adequate since after 8...Bd7 9.0-0! the Bd7 is overloaded and White has a pleasant position after Black's best  9...Qxd4 10.Bxc6 Qxd1 11.Bxd7+ Kxd7 12.Raxd1 (diagram):
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Here the Lichess comp embarks in the weird 12...h6 13.Bc1 g5 14.f4 gxf4 15.Bxf4 Bg7 16.Bxd6 Ke6 17.Bc5 Bxc3 with minimal advantage for White. 
Note that after 7.Bg5 Qb6 8.Bb5, 8...e5 doesn't work  after 9.Nd5! Qxd4 10.Qxd4 exd4 11.Nc7+ Kd7 12.Nxa8 and Black's Queenside is too cluttered; e.g. 12...b6 13.a4 f6 14.Bd2 Bb7 and White keeps an edge. 
In this first line with ...e5, the hero is White's Bg5 forcing Black's Kd7. So, White can improve with 7...h6!? at once (diagram):
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After 8.Bc1, Black is in time for 8...Qb6 9.Bb5 e5, e.g. 10.Nd5 Qxd4 11.Qxd4 exd4 12.Nc7+ Kd8 13.Nxa8 Bd7 with a safe edge. So, White should answer 7...h6 with 8.Nxc6, leading to equality after e.g. 8...bxc6 9.Bc1 Qb6 (or ...Nf6 at once followed by ...Qc7) 10.Qd2 (10.Qf3 is met by ...g5 and ...Bg7)) 10...e5 (diagram):
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Conclusion: This 6.Be3 line in the Classical looks a bit tricky, and Black should remember to reply 6...Ng4 7.Bg5 h6!? instead of 7...Qb6. For instance, American IM Michael Rohde had games with it since the 80's, even catching Caruana offguard. Is there established theory on this line, or is it mostly summed up with this h6/Bb5/e5/Nxc6 idea?   

     
  
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