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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Descided to give up Correspondence Chess (Read 5470 times)
bragesjo
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Re: Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #10 - 09/29/23 at 12:10:30
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I had a dream and got a vision. I will not join any new events this year. I will join one last a event 31 January. I got a new idea I had not tried yet. 

I will try one new opening strategy. No more Dragon or KID as black since identical draws always happened.  And no more cutting edge lines since forced sharper play tends to kill the game early.  If the games become more intersing maybee an other event in september else some last team matches.

Now I have some some time to think out a repertoar since I will have very few ongoing games in January.
  
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Jonathan Tait
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Re: Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #9 - 09/28/23 at 15:45:57
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cathexis wrote on 09/19/23 at 13:30:35:
Good read, thx!


thanks Smiley
  

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Re: Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #8 - 09/21/23 at 23:18:23
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I'm kinda in the same boat as you... I haven't started a game since 2022. The last game finished a couple of months ago.

I made IM which was my ultimate goal and I did it under the impossible system before any changes designed to make it easier. And I did it without a single invite to a worthwhile tournament of any kind.

ICCF unfortunately operates like an old boys club to a large degree; to get the events you want, gain rating etc you need to be invited to the right events. In over a decade on ICCF (and over 15 years in correspondence writ large), I NEVER once was invited to a single event ever. Meanwhile to any event the US gains spots to, you know that the entire US organizing body gets first shot + any of their sons so that's already a list of 20 - the same 20 every time - that get invited.

I even won my entry into the WCCC Semifinals which should have started in June 2023. For that reason, I was tying up all my others games to JUST focus on that ONE event and give it my all. Then the federation found a technicality to not include me in the event - saying I'd be welcome next year! Yet between their shitty attitude and how badly they treat all their players and not wanting to wait another year - as computers improve dramatically year over year now... I find myself retired(?). It wasn't a conscious choice but the current ICCF system is a bleeping mess.

I'm ~2425 and if my rating drops below 2420 then literally my available options of events to play drops to 0. So I have to cautiously guard my rating like crazy since I don't get any juicy invites from the federation and they don't honor the events you win your way into.

I've played over 1100 correspondence games in 15 years. In my last 70 games, I won 3 and lost 0 and drew 67 . Of the 70, I was never in trouble of losing or getting a worse position ever; in half of the 70, I was making significant progress - often winning a pawn or an exchange but the computer can still find simple ways to hold the draw. Of the 3 I won, one opponent straight up blundered in a dead draw (albeit complicated position if he didn't want the draw; he had no way to play for advantage and so should take the draw). One opponent was 1700. The other person, I just outplayed start to finish.

bragesjo wrote on 09/15/23 at 06:32:09:
ICCF made som rating rules changes now in 2023 but it does not change anything, it even made thing worse.

I haven't had time to finish reading this document... guess I'm not surprised it made things worse but quite sad.

They simply should hold more events for people of similar rating but they don't because they love their closed system of juicy invites for friends and family only. Something must change or computers will end this sport.

I kinda thought of myself as playing this sport well into my retirement... but somehow it disappeared without me missing it.
  
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cathexis
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Re: Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #7 - 09/19/23 at 13:30:35
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Good read, thx!
  
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Jonathan Tait
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Re: Decided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #6 - 09/19/23 at 07:56:09
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cathexis
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Re: Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #5 - 09/16/23 at 13:07:24
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Thanks for your reply!
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #4 - 09/16/23 at 08:51:25
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 09/15/23 at 18:22:22:
If they change the rating system in a way that makes this problem worse, it must be they only care about the elites, e.g. top 20 -- tough cookies for players 21 to 40.


I am not saying that the only care about elite but the rating system assumes that lower rated are usisng wrong tools or plays dubios opening. I met some 2200 that by moves played are using older tools, and it games vs them that can in some cases give winning chanses. But bellow 2100 Elo many players are using wrong tools. 

The only difference I noticed in with rating in may games are that many 2400+ delays dead draw endgames that evetuanlly leads to draws 200 days later.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #3 - 09/16/23 at 08:27:20
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cathexis wrote on 09/15/23 at 14:09:34:
Kind of sad post, but understandable. If you don't mind a question then: given 2 human players rated 2200 or greater over the board, what lines seem to do best for them while failing in CC? Perhaps I am asking which opening lines, while they seem confident for humans and are seen in competitive play, are shown to be dubious in CC play? (I hope I am being clear). Subjective, I know. But I would appreciate your thoughts.



During my years my few loses in rated games has mosty been when I experimeted on none mainstream openings as black like Scandinavian or French Winaver Petrosian system, but only lost a few games in these opening, I won some games as well. I lost some Bogo-Indian Nd2 b6  gameswhen trusting opening base to much.

Frankly I both won and lost some games where the losing side mixed up opening position or analysed one move and commiting move two in the analys.

I can also add in some games I won has been Ruy Lopez games where opponent choose some none mainstream lines nge7 g6 that Nakamura had played over the board but dubious in Correspondence Chess. I also won vs some other second rate variations. I also won some rated games in both mainstream Ruy Lopez and also in English attack Najdorf and in Hector Gambit in French and 2 Knights Caro Kann when it was clear that opponents did not use latest engines. 

I can also add a comment on cutting edge bases and books on Ruy Lopez and Open Sicilian. I can advise to not play Bd3 vs Najdorf black can eqalises completely with no play left in several lines. Its difficult to get anything in English attack with h5 as well. Vs Dragon the 9 000 d5 with Bd4 e5 the endgame is a dead draw in Correspondence Chess despite the both latest books and bases goes for it. Ruy Lopez with d3 instead of Re1 with Bd2 black can kill the game in two mainlines and Berlin is hard to get anything regardless of line, white gets the slightly more pleasant game but often draws.

In computer World Championship they are not allowed to choose openings themself and thats in possible the future at ICCF as well, I start to belive thematical events at the future but with difference that they are rated.
  
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Re: Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #2 - 09/15/23 at 18:22:22
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bragesjo wrote on 09/15/23 at 06:32:09:
The rating changes that was applied this year make the system even more stupid. The winner of the system are overrated do to inflation and loses are underrated do the deflation.  I play in open events with higher rating span than elite who only plays in closed rating based events. ... So the overrated keeps geting more overrated after these changes.

This is a known problem for "sub-elite" GMs in OTB chess. There aren't that many elite tournaments and the organizers want the strongest field possible for "reasons", so it's always the same few names. The elites risk very little. Even finishing last in the field costs only a few Elo. Admittedly these players do play great chess, but that's not the issue. Meanwhile in the opens there are great players finishing clear first and getting only a handful of rating points, while an "off day" where they give a draw against a lower rated sees them losing more Elo than an elite loses in a whole tournament. If they change the rating system in a way that makes this problem worse, it must be they only care about the elites, e.g. top 20 -- tough cookies for players 21 to 40.
  
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cathexis
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Re: Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
Reply #1 - 09/15/23 at 14:09:34
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Kind of sad post, but understandable. If you don't mind a question then: given 2 human players rated 2200 or greater over the board, what lines seem to do best for them while failing in CC? Perhaps I am asking which opening lines, while they seem confident for humans and are seen in competitive play, are shown to be dubious in CC play? (I hope I am being clear). Subjective, I know. But I would appreciate your thoughts.

TIA!
  
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bragesjo
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Descided to give up Correspondence Chess
09/15/23 at 06:32:09
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With a heavy heart and long thinking time I have decided to give up my Correspondence Chess carrier. I will do my best in all my ongoing games and I will enter a few events I qulified to and try to win them as well but I will not join any other new events.  I will still play in new team matches for Sweden but nothing else except maybee some later charity events or I get some invitatation and feels motiveted to join. I will at any rate be much fewer ongoing games.

I started with Correspondence Chess in 2016 but I even in this relativly short time frame I have seen great computer improvments in both hardware and software. ICCF made som rating rules changes now in 2023 but it does not change anything, it even made thing worse.  They seem to underestimate the inflation and deflation Elo problem resulting in title problem as well that computers coused by NNUE AI, better hardware and 7 men tablebases.  I come to conclusion its time consuming and uninspiring, I think I have played 50+ draws in a row in rated games despite that with black played KID and Dragon, and with white tried the latest possible cutting edge repetouars vs Sicilian and in Ruy Lopes etc etc.

The rating changes that was applied this year make the system even more stupid. The winner of the system are overrated do to inflation and loses are underrated do the deflation.  I play in open events with higher rating span than elite who only plays in closed rating based events. I have about 2300 and and met mostly lower rated down to the span 2100 and I lost 5 Elo more after that the new rules was than I would have done after old rules according to preivew there I saw a rating and got lower as soon as new system was applied. And after rating system changes I can not regain any of this Elo by draws vs higher rating unless I meet 300 Elo higher in every game. So the overrated keeps geting more overrated after these changes.

I have achived that I hope for when started. I got CCE title title than CCM title. I have play team matches for Sweden and played for Europe in Europe vs Rest of the world. I played in internatinal tournaments, in thematical events, in charity evens and in class events and quliefied to next step in events with finals or semi finals and won finals. I won some events and got top 3 in some other and got a few diplomas. I learned new openings and how some over the board line does not work in Correspondence Chess while other lines are inpractial in over the board but no problem in Correspeondence Chess. I have also played draws vs a back then top 6 rated GM.

The focus on my Chess play will in the future be in online divisions at Lichess for different teams.
  
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