Normal Topic English and Reti (Read 8142 times)
zoo
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Re: English and Reti
Reply #7 - 05/18/12 at 17:05:21
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@bresando: I know what you mean! but there are also good reasons to play the Catalan/Reti/English:
1. no need for a reason Smiley
2. Most chess players end up having one big defense against e4 and against d4, but when they play 1.e4 or 1.d4 they must maintain a dozen openings to cover their opponents' replies. When preparing with Black you just check your main defense against your opponent's presumed moves, but with White you must prepare several lines specifically against each opponent. With the Reti-Catalan (or English if you're ok with 1.c4 e5), you play on your own terms, as if you were Black, cutting off a lot of prep work. The resulting games are not so fun, but you can't have the cake and the biquie, as Gary Lane would say.
3. when you want to diversify, it's good to have a no-brainer option such as the catalan. In a recent GM rapid event, the main opening by White was by far a Nf3/g3 system.
4. When adults come back to chess after a long break, they don't care so much about opening theory and quite often play English or Catalan.
5. Some strong players consider it a good strategy to make nothing with White and to create chaos with Black. etc etc...

as for the OP concern, there isn't much you can do to disturb these patient spiders. Think of yourself as a fly in a web : walk the big lines (they're safe), don't take the sticky shortcurts and don't run everywhere or you'll be entangled!

Among the big lines :
- play solid systems (e.g. 1.c4 e5 instead of 1.c4 d5 which is discussed on another thread). 
- take these openings seriously and prepare dedicated set-ups against the English,Reti & Catalan. Don't dream of falling back to your favourite defense against 1.d4, it never happens.
- don't dream of a "magical or "critical" setup that will grant you easy play. In the best case you will have a long, equal game ahead. In the worst case you will be move-ordered and your confidence will vanish along with your preparation. (case in point: Black plays the Queen's Gambit and has prepared 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 dxc4 5.Bg2 Bb4+ 6.Bd2 a5, only to discover that after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Be7 4.g3 he has to play another system entirely).

so, the English & Reti/Catalan are worth studying on their own with Black, same as 1.d4 and 1.e4. Pick a system you like and you will certainly improve over time! 
  
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Bresando
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Re: English and Reti
Reply #6 - 05/18/12 at 14:59:16
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As a weak player i see a lot of people in my rating range "playing" according to this strategy. I'm not so sure that it really pays off in the long term. These players tend to have superficially good results, but show little or no improvement over time when compared to those with a more direct approach. They also tend to go down without a fight against stronger opponents.
  
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zoo
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Re: English and Reti
Reply #5 - 05/18/12 at 13:59:44
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there is a level of play when people tend to self-destruct in equal positions with no plan (the kind who ask "what is an aggressive option against the English?"). At this level, it pays a lot to play the Reti or English with White, just doing nothing and pretending to rely on superior positional understanding or whatever. In fact, they just take care of their position, risking very little and waiting for your blunders. It can be terribly effective! the only remedy i know is to play more games in order to gain experience and make less non-provoked errors. It's a long walk ahead...
  
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Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: English and Reti
Reply #4 - 05/18/12 at 08:14:43
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If the player is lower rated but has much experience anyway in those openings and transpositions to those openings, then they should be fine.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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fling
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Re: English and Reti
Reply #3 - 05/18/12 at 07:11:13
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chk wrote on 05/17/12 at 13:15:12:


As a weaker player you can of course try your hand with one of these openings, but you will most probably play it at a more superfluous level..


This will happen with basically any opening, right? But as you say, even if you play the system better than your opponent, at a "lower" level, you might not be able to benefit from the advantage you get.

I also think the transpositional possibilities is one of the main reasons. Another is that many beginners are taught to play open games. 



  
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Re: English and Reti
Reply #2 - 05/18/12 at 00:40:17
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I think it simply is more difficult to handle 1.c4/1.Nf3, so higher graded players are more experienced with this problem. 1.c4/1.Nf3 requires much knowledge of the closed openings, especially due to problems with transpositions, which usually is not mastered at lower grades. But I still think a lower graded player who studies thoroughly these systems and is advanced is able to play these systems.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
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chk
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Re: English and Reti
Reply #1 - 05/17/12 at 13:15:12
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imo 3 are the main reasons:

a) 1. c4 & 1. Nf3 may lead to closed positions, which may in turn transform into open positions with lots of tactics. So a good advice is for a player to learn first the open positions (e.g. a more 'open' 1. e4 repertoire) and then move on to the closed games.

b) These moves offer a lot of transpositional opportunities. That is a good idea if you are well versed with many openings and may want to lure your opponent into uknown territory. Transpositions may happen even around move 10! So it is much easier to handle all this if you have more knowledge & experience (= stronger players). Again, a 1. e4 rep may lead to more straightforward chess.

c) The c4/d4/Nf3 complex may lead more frequently to technical positions (e.g. IQP late middlegames, minority attacks, R endings with 1 extra pawn on one side, good N vs. bad B and the like). In order to take advantage of any of these you need to:
- Have the necessary technical knowledge;
- Be ready to trade this advantage for sth else (e.g. a K-side attack), so you need to be able to judge this and also execute it correctly;
- Be patient and able to supress the opponent's counterplay (another 'technical' feature)

As a weaker player you can of course try your hand with one of these openings, but you will most probably play it at a more superfluous level..
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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snakebite
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English and Reti
05/17/12 at 12:32:39
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The majority of people at club level playing 1 c4 and 1 Nf3 tend to be higher graded - say 170 +.  What do you think the reason for this is?  I have been told that it is to do with their higher sense of positional understanding which suits these positions better.  However, what ever your grade and what ever position you have from the opening surely the person who plays best on the day will win!
  
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