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Normal Topic 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 (Read 9829 times)
GaryBird
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Re: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3
Reply #7 - 01/26/04 at 08:44:41
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I have been experimenting with the Veresov for several months now, having been inspired by Nigel Davies' recent book, and I have had great success with it against much higher ranked opponents. As I dislike chess-by-numbers, I naturally gravitate towards openings that take my opponent out of book and give me something of a level playing field. Regarding some of the suggestions given in this thread, I would probably play:

3.Bg5 against 2...c5, 2...d6, 2...g6, 2...e6 (assuming 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3)

If someone tries to play the Dutch against me via 1.d4 f5, I will most likely reply 2.Bg5. This is an idea from Aaron Summerscale's A Killer Chess Opening Repertoire as Nigel Davies' book doesn't appear to cover this eventuality (grrrrrr).
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3
Reply #6 - 01/22/04 at 20:19:35
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In the original post AmateurDragoneer mentions he plays the King's Indian Defense on the side.   Roll Eyes
  
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nexirae
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Re: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3
Reply #5 - 01/22/04 at 15:38:36
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Just a quick one since I'm busy right now, but if you play the Dutch why would you have to worry about d4 Nf6 Nc3?   

d4 f5! and you've avoided the Veresov...

NeX iRae
  
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Re: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3
Reply #4 - 01/22/04 at 14:26:09
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There is also 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 g6 3.e4 c5!? with transpositional possibilities to the Dragon, Benoni, or some lines without (I think) a name.

  I. 4.Nf3 cxd4 5.Nxd4 d6

 II. 4.d5 d6

III. 4.dxc5 Qa5

IV.  4.e5 cxd4 5.Nb5 Nh5!?(5...Ng8) might be playable.

I've only seen one game with 3...c5!? so perhpas there is a refutation to it?
  
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Re: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3
Reply #3 - 01/22/04 at 10:26:45
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Other options I'd consider

(I also play the Lenindutch btw, and I used to play the Dragon as well but got too depressed by the sheer amount of theory  Cry )

are:

2...g6 3.e4 d5 4.e5 Nh5 with a North Sea Defence.  Grin

2...e6 3.e4 d5 with a French Classical or McCutcheon  Cheesy

2...d6 3.e4 c6 4.f4 Qa5 and e7-e5 if allowed  Cheesy

or
1...g6!? 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.e4 c5 would perhaps appeal to the Dragoneer in you - as well as keeping the door open for a Leningrad (or even the KID)  8)

If none of the above suit you, just play 1...f5!? and if 2.Nc3 then 2...g6 may be the move here as well, since 2...Nf6 3.Bg5 d5 is rather boring to play even if it's theoretically fine...  Undecided
  
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Tzanidakis_Michael
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Re: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3
Reply #2 - 01/22/04 at 07:10:04
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As a King's Indian player I like closed positions where I attack on the King side and white on the queen side. So after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 Nbd7 4.e3 c5 with the idea c4, Bb4, Bxc3 doubling the pawns on the c-file and decreasing the power of the white's attack on the queen side. Here is a game showing my idea, against Chessmaster.


[Date "11-1-2003"]
[White "Chessmaster 8000"]
[Black "Tzanidakis Michael"]
[Result "0-1"]

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 Nbd7 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 c5 6.Nf3 c4 7.Be2 Bb4 8.O-O Bxc3 9.bxc3 Qa5 10.Qb1 Qxc3 11.Bf4 Qa5 12.Bd6 Ne4 13.Bb4 Qa4 14.Qb2 a5 15.Bd2 O-O  16.c3 Qc6 17.a4 f5 18.Qc2 h6 19.Bc1 g5 20.Qa3 Rf7 21.Rfd1 g4 22.Nd2 Ndf6 23.Nxe4 Nxe4 24.Rdb1 h5 25.f3 gxf3 26.Bxf3 Ng5 27.Bxh5 Rh7 28.Bd1 Qc7 29.g3 Bd7 30.Bc5 Bc6 31.Kf1 Qd7 32. Kg1 Kh8 33.Ba3 Rg8 34.Bb2 Ne4 35.Qg2 Rhg7 36.Qh3+ Rh7 37.Qg2 Qc7 38.Kf1 Nxg3+ 39.hxg3 Rxg3 40.Qf2 Rh1+ 41.Ke2 Rgh3 42. Bc2 R1h2 43.Rg1 Rxf2+ 44.Kxf2 Rh2+ 45.Rg2 Rxg2+ 46.Kxg2 Qg7+ 47.Kf2 Qh6 48.Kg2 Qxe3 49.Rh1+ Kg7 50.Rf1 Be8 51.Rf3 Qe2+ 52.Rf2 Qg4+ 53.Kh2 Qh4+ 54.Kg2 Bh5 55.Bc1 Bg4 56.Bf4 Qh3+ 57.Kg1 Qxc3 58.Bd2 Qxd4 59. Bxa5 e5 60.Bb4 e4 61.Be1 e3 62.Rg2 e2+ 63.Kh2 Qf4+ 64.Rg3 d4 65.Be4 fxe4 66.a5 d3 67.Kh1 Qf1+ 68.Kh2 Qf4 69.Kh1 Kf6 70.Kxg4 Qxg4 71.Bd2 Qf3+ 72.Kh2 e3 73.Bc3+ Kf5 74.Bb4 d2 75.Bxd2 exd2 76.a6 bxa6 77.Kg1 e1=Q+ 78.Kh2 Qeh1# 0-1
« Last Edit: 01/22/04 at 09:38:05 by Tzanidakis_Michael »  
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alumbrado
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Re: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3
Reply #1 - 01/22/04 at 04:14:10
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Well, as a Pirc player, I am inclined to say that you bring your hardships on yourself!  Tongue

Seriously though, I can't see many alternatives, so you may just have to learn a line against the Veresov.

The only other possibilities I can see are (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3):
- 2...c5, when 3.d5 leads to Schmid Benoni positions, not to everyone's taste
- 2...d6 3.e4 e5 when 4.dxe5 is probably OK for Black, but 4.Nf3 leads to a Philidor - again, not to everyone's taste
- if you fancy an offbeat try, how about 2...Nc6!?  I don't think I would play it myself, but then I wouldn't play the Leningrad Dutch either! Smiley
  
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AmateurDragoneer
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1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3
01/21/04 at 20:55:27
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I have seen this move order used by players who enjoy the Veresov. I usually get 2...d5 3. Bg5. However, I don't particularly enjoy this and for a player who hates the d4-d5 pawn structure symmetry, I can't say I love Black's second move. I have been trying out 2...g6 when I can (I must admit I don't see this very often) but I was hping there were some more interesting and offbeat possibilities. I considered 2...e6 and then the game could transpose to a french or queen's fianchetto if Black chooses to play b6. However, I am not comfortable with those openings so I don't know if that is a good idea. Since I play Dragon and Leningrad Dutch (w/ a little KID on the side), I figured 2...g6 should be fine, but then 3. e4 and I'm stuck in a Pirc which is definitely NOT where i want to be.

I appreciate all suggestions!

Thanks,

Mitch
  
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