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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Lemberger counter-gambit (Read 26076 times)
Teyko
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #15 - 05/18/04 at 14:29:27
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9. Be3 Nc6 10 Bb5 Ne7 11. Nge2 0-0 12. a3

9. Rc1 Qd7 10. Nge2 0-0-0 11. Be3

Here are my moves.
  
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GMEricPrie
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #14 - 05/18/04 at 10:49:52
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Not at all, MnB, this a new concept of Online Analysis!

You can discuss the moves, take them back, and it is over only when you can agree on an indisputable assessment of the position, out of the opening, after having 'exhausted' all the tracks. 
Everybody is invited to participate, and their analysis, when relevant, will be mentioned in the updates !

It is very useful when you study a line with little or highly specialized (or biased  Smiley) theory on it. 
For instance, in what is considered as the main line of the Sneiders, there is only one single game in the database, as given by Teyko ! in which actually  the final position is completely ‘flat’. Already a little success for Black…
Anyway, I did think of another move instead of 11…Qd5…as Teyko sensed by playing the better 11.Ne2 to which I reply by castling 11…0-0.

This is a real debate of ideas : Black has a slight lead in development, in this symmetrical structure, and in consequence is the first to hit the opponent’s e pawn but in return has conceded some annoying black squares weaknesses on the king side. 

The more I study this position the more I get interested into 5…g6, on which I have  found 7 games, on the other hand, and 4 with 6.Qg5 including that one :
 
Sneiders,E - Morin,J
corr, 1988
 
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Cc3 e5 4.Dh5 Cc6 5.dxe5 g6 6.Dg5 Fe7 7.Df4 f5! 8.exf6 Cxf6 9.Cxe4 ? Cxe4 10.Dxe4 Cb4 ! -+ 11.Fb5+ ? (11.Bg5 Bf5 12.Bb5+ c6 13. Qe5 is a lot more complicated)  c6 12.Fa4 Da5 13.c3 Ff5 0–1

As for 9.Rc1 Qd7 10.Nge2  I am rather optimistic after 10…0-0-0 






  
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Teyko
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #13 - 05/17/04 at 14:42:04
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9.Rc1 Qd7 10. Nge2
  
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Teyko
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #12 - 05/17/04 at 14:24:39
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I am still looking at the Rc1 line. 9. Rc1 Qd7 10. Nxe4 looks intuitive, but I have to evaluate it closer. 

GM Prie, what did you think about my analysis to your 5. g6 move, is Qg5 a legitimate idea or is the theory more sound?
  
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Teyko
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #11 - 05/17/04 at 14:22:22
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1. d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 d5 4. Qh5 Nc6 5. dxe5 Bb4 
6. Bd2 g6 7. Qe2 Nd4 8. Qd1 Bf5 9. Be3 Nc6 10. Bb5 Ne7 11. Nge2!?

Here theory points to 11. Bh6, but I did not like moving the bishop for a third time, since you would probably castle queen side anyway. oh, here is that game.

[Event "corr"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1993.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Baum, Hans Juergen"]
[Black "Tait, Jonathan A"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D00"]
[PlyCount "37"]
[EventDate "1993.??.??"]
[Source "Pickard & Son"]
[SourceDate "2003.05.02"]

1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 e5 4. Qh5 Nc6 5. dxe5 Bb4 6. Bd2 g6 7. Qe2 Nd4 8.Qd1 Bf5 9. Be3 Nc6 10. Bb5 Nge7 11. Bh6 Qd5 12. Qxd5 Nxd5 13. Bxc6+ bxc6 14.Nge2 O-O-O 15. O-O-O Bg4 16. Rd4 Nxc3 17. Rxd8+ Rxd8 18. Nxc3 Bxc3 19. bxc3 1/2-1/2

  
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MNb
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #10 - 05/17/04 at 05:50:52
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Looks like an email game Teyko-Prie.
  

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GMEricPrie
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #9 - 05/16/04 at 14:59:42
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On 9.Rc1 I would rather have played 9...Qd7.

And here, I play 10.Bb5 Ne7.
  
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Teyko
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #8 - 05/16/04 at 13:25:09
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9.Be3 Nc6  10. Bb5


9. Rc1 Nc6 10. Bb5 Where you still going to play Nc6 against Rc1?
  
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GMEricPrie
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #7 - 05/16/04 at 12:38:58
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And 9...Nc6 is mine.
  
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Teyko
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #6 - 05/15/04 at 17:19:53
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In our game GM Prie, 

1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 e5 4. Qh5 Nc6 5. dxe5 Bb4

6. Bd2 g6 7. Qe2 Nd4 8. Qd1 Bf5 9. Be3 (9. Rc1!?)

I will play Be3 because it is allegedly the best, but I am looking into Rc1 I need to look at some lines but Be3 is my move.
  
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Teyko
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #5 - 05/15/04 at 17:03:39
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Priemere, je voudrais parler a votre peur avec regarde a 5...g6   

In the move order  1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 e5 4. Qh5 Nc6 5. dxe5 g6!? This has been played three times in my BDG database. In all instances it was replied to with 6. Qe2 here are those games. For those BDGr's following at home, it is page 70 in Tim Sawyer's keybook.

(4763) Owens,Johnny - Morin,Jay [D00]
corr, 1988
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5 4.Qh5 Nc6 5.dxe5 g6 6.Qe2 Nd4 [6...Bb4 7.Qxe4 Bxc3+ 8.bxc3 Bf5 9.Qe2 Qd5 10.Nf3 0–0–0 11.c4 Qe4 12.Bg5 Nge7 13.c3 Rd7 14.Qxe4 Bxe4 15.Bf6 Rhd8 16.Ng5 Bc2 17.Be2 Rf8 18.Rc1 Bf5 19.Nxh7 Re8 20.g4 Be6 21.Ng5 b6 22.Nxe6 fxe6 23.f4 Ng8 24.Bg5 a6 25.c5 b5 26.a4 Na7 27.c6 1–0 Dowell,C-Hill,C/corr 1996/BDG Mega-CD] 7.Qd1 Bg7 [7...Bg4 8.Nge2 Nc6 9.Bf4 Bh6 10.Bxh6 Nxh6 11.Nxe4 Nxe5 12.Qd5 Nf3+ 13.gxf3 Qxd5 14.Nf6+ Kf8 15.Nxd5 Bxf3 16.Nxc7 Rc8 17.Rg1 Rxc7 18.Nd4 Be4 19.c3 Nf5 20.Nb5 Re7 21.Nxa7 Kg7 22.0–0–0 Ra8 23.Nb5 Rxa2 24.Bh3 Ra1+ 25.Kd2 Ra5 26.c4 Nh4 27.Kc3 Nf3 28.Rg3 h5 29.Bg2 h4 30.Rxf3 Bxf3 31.Bxf3 Ra8 32.Nd6 1–0 Steffens,O-Kurth,J/Landes-Einzelmeister 1991/BDG Mega-CD] 8.Nxe4 Bxe5 9.c3 Nc6 10.Qxd8+ Nxd8 11.Nf3 Bg7 12.Bb5+ c6 13.Bd3 Ne7 14.Nd6+ Kf8 15.Nxc8 Rxc8 16.0–0 h6 17.Be3 c5 18.Rfd1 Nd5 19.Bxc5+ Rxc5 20.Be4 Kg8 21.Bxd5 1–0

As we can see, the normal reply to 6. Qe2 has been Nd4, Sawyer gives 6...Bf5 7. Be3 Bb4 8. Qb5 Bc3 9. bxc3 Qc8 as equal. 

But I believe I have a better plan of action. 6. Qg5, the idea is to activate the dark squared bishop around the weak dark squares black suffers due to g6. 

Tommy Curry Analysis 5..g6 6. Qg5

1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5 4.Qh5 Nc6 5.dxe5 g6 6.Qg5 Bf5 [6...Be7 7.Qd2 Qd4 8.Qf4 Nb4 9.Bb5+ Bd7 10.Bxd7+ Kxd7 11.Qg4+ Ke8 12.Qe2 (equal)] 7.Bb5 f6 8.Bxc6+ bxc6 9.Qg3 (white has small advantage).


  
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GMEricPrie
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #4 - 05/15/04 at 02:01:07
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6...g6 then 7.Qe2 Nd4 8.Qd1 Bf5 your move
As for myself, I hesitated with 5...g6 !?

That is what makes the test of practice so valueable when you study 'uncommon' openings with specialists.
  
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Teyko
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #3 - 05/14/04 at 17:25:57
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Your move GM Prie.

1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 e5 4. Qh5 Nc6 5. dxe5 Bb4 6. Bd2

I was also looking at Bf4 but I don't know....anyway this is theory I think I can get you on this line.
  
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GMEricPrie
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #2 - 05/14/04 at 15:07:04
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Toto sa mi paci!  Wink
Then we can start building something!
Indeed, I had not considered 7.Bc4, just 7.Bb5+ , but instead of 7...a6, why not 7...c6 ?
With the idea 8.Bg5 Nfxd5 and Black seems doing fine.

It is your move teyko,  I have already played 5...Bb4. Smiley
  
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Teyko
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Re: Lemberger counter-gambit
Reply #1 - 05/14/04 at 13:45:04
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I prefer the Snieders attack personally. 

1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 e5 4. Qh5 Nc6 5. dxe5 and in the lines following it looks like we have equality.
  
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