Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match (Read 43147 times)
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #54 - 08/01/05 at 19:40:44
Post Tools
To be fair I dont see anything after a simple 25.e6
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2211
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #53 - 08/01/05 at 19:31:44
Post Tools
I don't know about Eric, but I certainly have revised my opinion on this Opening. Grin

So much so in fact that I think a name change is in order. 'Barely Decent Gambit' seems to have a certain ring to it.

Surely we can all agree on this one.

Top Grin 
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
nexirae
Full Member
***
Offline


SMURF!  Soviet Men Under
Red Father!

Posts: 238
Location: Cornell Univ., Ithaca
Joined: 11/03/03
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #52 - 08/01/05 at 18:41:21
Post Tools
Just my opinion but I think the second pawn offer may have been too much and white has finally overextended himself.  Just thinking something like 25 ... Qd6 26 Rde1 f6 27 Bg6+ Kf8 28 Bxh5? Qb4! is ugly.  (c4 Rxh5 etc.)

I don't see too many other ways to play it.   

Anyways, I'm wondering what Eric is thinking of the BDG yet.  Do you still think it's trash while trying to sift through your notes to find a cure?  Ready to admit it's at least as decent as some "playable" openings?   

Smiley   

NeX iRae
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #51 - 07/24/05 at 11:18:30
Post Tools
1.e4 d5 2.d4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nge2 Nc6 5.d5 Nce7 6.Ng3 Nf6 7.Bc4 Bg4 8.f3 exf3 9.gxf3 Bh3 10.Bg5 and here it seems to me that 10...c6 might well have been considered, challenging the center and daring White's g5 bishop to do its worst.  For example,  11. Bxf6 (11. dxc6 Nxc6 12. Nd5 Be7 appears to justify 10...c6 even more.) 11...gxf6 and now:

(1) 12. Nge4 Nf5  13. dxc6 bxc6  14. Qxd8 Rxd8  15. Nxf6+ Ke7 is happy for Black, with his two bishops.

(2) 12. Nh5 Bh6 (12...Nf5  13. Qd3 and 12...Ng6  13. Qd2 are OK for White, I think)  13. Nxf6+ Kf8 and Black again appears pretty good, with his two bishops.  White has to watch out for ...Qh4+ in some lines.

  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sevenviolets
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 176
Location: Brno
Joined: 05/19/05
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #50 - 07/21/05 at 00:17:11
Post Tools
Eric, I take a leave till the end of month due to a chess tournament I´m going to play. Patrik.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sevenviolets
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 176
Location: Brno
Joined: 05/19/05
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #49 - 07/18/05 at 11:55:25
Post Tools
Quote:
22...exf4 after a long thought. 
Could not you have played your second move ? 
If it is 23.e5 Bxe5 and 24.Bd3 Rh6 or any pinning move on the e line 24...f7-f6.


I´m sorry for this but actually, it wasn´t possible because I didn´t know what to play after 22..exf4. I wanted to check my analysis first (I had pre-prepared e5!?)
 
1.e4 d5 2.d4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nge2 Nc6 5.d5 Nce7 6.Ng3 Nf6 7.Bc4 Bg4 8.f3 exf3 9.gxf3 Bh3 10.Bg5 Qd6 11.Qe2 a6 12.0-0-0 Ng6 13.Kb1 h6 14.Nge4 Nxe4 15.Nxe4 Qd7 16.Be3 Bf5 17.h4 Bxe4 18.fxe4 h5 19.Qf2 Bd6 20.Rhg1 Rh7 21.Bg5 Nf4 22.Bxf4 exf4 23.e5 Bxe5 24.Bd3 Rh6 25.Qe2

White is sacrifing yet another pawn to open lines. Opposed coloured bishops are here but still, white hopes in some initiative because of rather inactive black rooks. After f6 now, look at rook on h6, it will became very passive and moreover, black king is going to be trapped in the middle of the board. These factors speak for white. Maybe, at the end, a result of this game might be a draw, but I want to point out once again, that draw is a very normal result in chess. BDG has been considered unsound, leading to black´s advantage (based on a well-known anti-gambit philosophy: trade pieces, go as quickly as possible for an endgame, and here, with a pawn more, win). Things are not so easy. BDG proves to be viable and playable opening (in all three games), giving white good compensation for a pawn, lively piece play with a lot of attacking possibilities. 

  As for this game, black has needed to play very accurately to not lose in a miniature. I think, the position we are playing is much more easier to play for white in over-the-board game than for black. And this is an important factor for white players who play BDG. I´m also a Morra Gambit player and I know this opening is very difficult to play OTB for white because you need to be extremely good tactician or to know theory well (and especially to be very familiar with the most frequent motives). In my opinion, it is easier to play black side in Morra than in BDG. Well, enough words.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMEricPrie
Full Member
***
Offline


"The most simple moves
are the less complicated"

Posts: 145
Location: France
Joined: 06/18/03
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #48 - 07/17/05 at 16:39:58
Post Tools
22...exf4 after a long thought. 
Could not you have played your second move ? 
If it is 23.e5 Bxe5 and 24.Bd3 Rh6 or any pinning move on the e line 24...f7-f6.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sevenviolets
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 176
Location: Brno
Joined: 05/19/05
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #47 - 07/17/05 at 08:08:11
Post Tools
22.Bxf4
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMEricPrie
Full Member
***
Offline


"The most simple moves
are the less complicated"

Posts: 145
Location: France
Joined: 06/18/03
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #46 - 07/17/05 at 04:08:10
Post Tools
21.Bg5 Nf4

"White is already better". No doubt about that... the only question is : "Is that 'already betterness' worth the pawn he gave up in return?  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sevenviolets
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 176
Location: Brno
Joined: 05/19/05
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #45 - 07/08/05 at 04:34:52
Post Tools
  Yes, you may be right. I briefly analysed one of your suggestion (6...f5 7.Bc4 a6 8.0-0 Nf6 9.Nh5 is given with initiative, but simply 9...Ng6 10.Bg5 Qd6 -/+) and I didn´t find any move for white. 
  But right now I don´t want to spend my time to analyse this 6..f5 line, but thanks for your suggestions, they seems to be valuable. I personally played against this line just once some year or two ago, winning a corresp. game, but of course, the line is quite complicated. Maybe white should play something like a4 to prevent b5 etc., white play needs to be well planned in before hand, the most accurate move are needed to exploit possibly unfortunate position of black´s king. 
  Still, pawn mass seems to be impressive and for me black´s position looks quite playable. But as you noticed, sometimes white can win by some very nice moves like Ncxe4! knight sacrifice as in one of the lines. I think Junior 8 will be good in such types of position.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ubiyca
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 47
Location: California, USA
Joined: 06/14/04
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #44 - 07/07/05 at 13:53:49
Post Tools
Quote:


Both lines you´re asking about are dealt with here http://www.mujweb.cz/www/rajmunde/horizon.htm

9..Bd7 line just with one short line:
7...Bg4 8.f3 exf3 9.gxf3 Bd7 10.Bg5 Ng6 11.Nh5 Be7 12.Nxg7+ Kf8 13.Bh6 Kg8 14.Qd2 Bh3 15.Bf1 Qd7 16.0-0-0 Bxf1 17.Rdxf1 Bf8 18.h4+/-

Probably some improvements for white is possible here and there are some other alternatives for black as well but I think 9..Bh3 is better and more difficult to prove an advantage.



I appreciate the analysis you have posted, as much of it must have been done by you. Some of the lines are quite nice, especially what you give as the main line of 6...f5 (with the ensuing knight sacrifice on e4). However, I don't believe you're trying as hard for Black as you are for White in your analyses.  Wink Here are some quick thoughts:

6...f5 7.Bc4 Nf6 8.Bg5 Qd6 (no longer have the nice idea of b3 + a4 + Ba3), and if 9.Bxf6 Qxf6 10.Nb5 Kd7! and there doesn't seem to be any way of stopping Black from regrouping. For example, 11.0-0 a6 12.Nc3 Ng6 -/+

6...f5 7.Bc4 Nf6 8.Bg5 Ng6 9.Nh5 Qd6 10.Bb5+ Kf7 (exchanging the light-squared Bishops is positionally bad: Black's is needed to hold the central pawn mass together, while White's has little future with the d5-pawn blocking it's only useful diagonal) 11.0-0 Be7 (11...a6!?) 12.Nxf6 Bxf6 13.Bxf6 gxf6 -/+

6...f5 7.Bc4 a6 8.0-0 Ng6 9.d6 Bxd6 10.Nd5 Nf4 (this idea of 10...b5 and 11...c5 seems a little Fritz-ish to me; also possible is the simple 10...Nge7!? 11.Bg5 Qd7 12.Nh5 Kf8; White's position looks threatening, but he's got nothing more to do) 11.Nh5 Nxh5 12.Qxh5+ g6 13.Qe2 c6 14.Nc3 Qe7 -/+

6...f5 7.Bc4 a6 8.0-0 Nf6 9.Nh5 is given with initiative, but simply 9...Ng6 10.Bg5 Qd6 -/+

6...Nf6 7.Bc4 Bg4 8.f3 exf3 9.gxf3 Bd7 10.Bg5 Nf5 (this is what I suggested, rather than 10...Ng6 which doesn't fight for any really key squares) 11.Nxf5 Bxf5 12.Bb5+ Bd7 13.Qe2 Bd6 14.f4 Qe7 (14...0-0 15.Bxd7 looks a little dangerous, but might be ok) 15.Bxd7+ Kxd7 16.0-0-0 exf4 -/+
« Last Edit: 07/08/05 at 00:51:49 by ubiyca »  

vbhat.wordpress.com
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Sevenviolets
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 176
Location: Brno
Joined: 05/19/05
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #43 - 07/07/05 at 03:18:15
Post Tools
Quote:
I just noticed this thread, as I don't usually venture into the d-pawn Specials forum. In any case, I have a few questions about the play so far:

1.e4 d5 2.d4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nge2 Nc6 5.d5 Nce7 6.Ng3

[It looks like this was the pre-arranged starting position; why not 6...f5 now?]

6...Nf6!? 7.Bc4 Bg4 8.f3 exf3 9.gxf3 Bh3?

[What is the idea behind this move? 9...Bd7 seems much more logical - the Bishop covers against annoying Bb5+ ideas and prepares the simple move 10...Nf5, when Black is better. After 9...Bh3 10.Bg5, 10...Nc8 is silly, for example 11.Bb5+ Bd7 12.Qe2, and 10...Nf5? walks into 11.Bb5+ because of Black's 9th move misstep.]

Any comments?


Both lines you´re asking about are dealt with here http://www.mujweb.cz/www/rajmunde/horizon.htm

9..Bd7 line just with one short line:
7...Bg4 8.f3 exf3 9.gxf3 Bd7 10.Bg5 Ng6 11.Nh5 Be7 12.Nxg7+ Kf8 13.Bh6 Kg8 14.Qd2 Bh3 15.Bf1 Qd7 16.0-0-0 Bxf1 17.Rdxf1 Bf8 18.h4+/-

Probably some improvements for white is possible here and there are some other alternatives for black as well but I think 9..Bh3 is better and more difficult to prove an advantage.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ubiyca
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 47
Location: California, USA
Joined: 06/14/04
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #42 - 07/07/05 at 00:46:45
Post Tools
I just noticed this thread, as I don't usually venture into the d-pawn Specials forum. In any case, I have a few questions about the play so far:

1.e4 d5 2.d4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nge2 Nc6 5.d5 Nce7 6.Ng3

[It looks like this was the pre-arranged starting position; why not 6...f5 now?]

6...Nf6!? 7.Bc4 Bg4 8.f3 exf3 9.gxf3 Bh3?

[What is the idea behind this move? 9...Bd7 seems much more logical - the Bishop covers against annoying Bb5+ ideas and prepares the simple move 10...Nf5, when Black is better. After 9...Bh3 10.Bg5, 10...Nc8 is silly, for example 11.Bb5+ Bd7 12.Qe2, and 10...Nf5? walks into 11.Bb5+ because of Black's 9th move misstep.]

Any comments?
  

vbhat.wordpress.com
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Sevenviolets
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 176
Location: Brno
Joined: 05/19/05
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #41 - 07/06/05 at 11:16:42
Post Tools
1.e4 d5 2.d4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nge2 Nc6 5.d5 Nce7 6.Ng3 Nf6 7.Bc4 Bg4 8.f3 exf3 9.gxf3 Bh3 10.Bg5 Qd6 11.Qe2 a6 12.0-0-0 Ng6 13.Kb1 h6 14.Nge4 Nxe4 15.Nxe4 Qd7 16.Be3 Bf5 17.h4 Bxe4 18.fxe4 h5 19.Qf2 Bd6 20.Rhg1 Rh7 21.Bg5

Rh7!? is a cunning move but anyway, white is better already, yet, no quick crush, as I prophesied at the beginning of the match. There is the only reason for this: black has been defending very well. 
Still, Rh7 is a cunning move but on the other hand I have feeling that it might be misplaced a bit in the future position. 

I hope to write here soon: black has been defending very well yet has been defeated as well Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMEricPrie
Full Member
***
Offline


"The most simple moves
are the less complicated"

Posts: 145
Location: France
Joined: 06/18/03
Gender: Male
Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #40 - 07/02/05 at 03:30:27
Post Tools
20.Rhg1 Rh7
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo