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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match (Read 43099 times)
Sevenviolets
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #69 - 08/24/05 at 13:17:23
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I somehow messed the position up. Now, I want just to spare our precious time, for white trying to hold the position, for black trying to win the position. As I think the odds are about 5% for white win, 80 for draw and 15% for black´s win I offer a draw. It has been quite reasonable decision. I´m also a bit annoyed by "not responding habit" of my last opponent. I would like to finish all this Challenge Match stuff. I think it has been interesting experience, it might have shown something, esp. to those many guys who are deadly opposed to any gambit, esp. BDG one.   
I think there were very few people who thought I can play against Eric for a win, in his beloved anti-BDG line and indeed, I did. Everybody who is going to check the game score can spot that white was attacking and black was defending. He was defending very well. It has shown that in BDG lies a great uncovered potential. 
Yet, I´m not completely persuaded about the line we were playing. I remember one guy (cannot remember his name now) sent some interesting analysis here on forum, dealing with 4..Nc6 line and they looked very interesting, from black point of view. Also there is 4.Nge2 Bb4!? line which also seems to offer some reasonable chances to equalise for black. But no many games were played in this line so from this point, it is still open.
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #68 - 08/24/05 at 12:55:45
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To be honest, given how the game started, I think if I were in GM Prie's position, I would be a little perturbed by the draw offer.  In my opinion, I think it could be viewed as being a little disrespectful.


I don't agree.  Chess is chess, regardless of your title.  The draw offer is legal and therefore acceptable.   

However you aren't, as I recall, supposed to offer a draw to The Master when he's playing you in a simul -- whatever his title.  I did, out of ignorance at the time, once offer a draw to Portish in a simul, and he accepted.  It was right after the big San Antonio tournament in the early 1970s.  He was tired.  I think that out of about 50 opponents, he gave 3-4 draws and even lost one game.  In our particular game, he missed a move that would've killed me.

I'm sure that if it'd been before San Antonio, it would've been a different story.
  

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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #67 - 08/24/05 at 11:42:53
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I think that is perfectly reasonable.  I think a draw offer in a difficult situation in a tournament is a perfectly valid decision, regardless of the titles of the players involved!

This seems to be a bit of a different situation under unusual circumstances.  For one thing, in a tournament situation there is no talking during the game.  If I were to see the draw offer itself alone without prior knowledge of the history of the game, I would think little of it, GM title or not.  The situation seems to be a little complicated, but maybe I am reading too much in the players' comments.  I probably made things worse by saying something!
  

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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #66 - 08/24/05 at 06:43:39
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Oh, please! I once drew GM Alex Sherzer  (July 1999) in a BDG. I offered the draw, and he accepted.  Of course, it was a complex position, and he had 1 minute remaining to my 1.5 on the clock...
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #65 - 08/24/05 at 02:32:28
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I agree that it may be difficult to play for win, but I don't think it is appropriate to call the position a "draw."  I think it is fine to say that you believe that you have adequate resources to hold the position, but calling a "draw" for White here seems a rather bold thing to say.  The position seems to have a bit of life to me.

I am rather speculating about things, and it is probably a bit rude and out of place to do this.  Something just didn't feel right to me in the way you offered the draw.  I think it better now that you have clarified yourself.  GM Prie is probably busy anyway.  It really isn't my business, but there have already been misunderstandings.  I don't like to see these terminate a discussion.  I hope you see where I am coming from.
  

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Sevenviolets
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #64 - 08/24/05 at 02:02:32
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You get the impression that he would like to end this game, yet cannot bring himself to accept a draw in the current position.  Not I that would fault him for that.  I think Schoupal's draw offer puts him in a difficult situation, as he would have to continue the game purely out of his own volition.  In a tournament situation, I think draw offers of this sort are best ignored, but this is a different (and somewhat unusual) situation.

To be honest, given how the game started, I think if I were in GM Prie's position, I would be a little perturbed by the draw offer.  In my opinion, I think it could be viewed as being a little disrespectful.


Why? I think it is a draw. Unfortunatelly, I played some two, three bad moves. Especially when I wanted to try for a win but it wasn´t in the position. Now, black is even a bit better though I don´t think he could win such position. Therefore I offered a draw. I should do it some 5 or even ten moves ago but simply I didn´t understand the position so much. I admire Eric´s assesement of the position some moves ago when he described possible result. He was right. White missed his win somewhere, but one has to see that the position was quite complicated.
X, a little disrespectful might be only your words and Eric´s super-long pause without any comment, but I see right now French Championship is playing on and I think he might be coaching someone. 
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #63 - 08/24/05 at 00:34:28
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You get the impression that he would like to end this game, yet cannot bring himself to accept a draw in the current position.  Not I that would fault him for that.  I think Schoupal's draw offer puts him in a difficult situation, as he would have to continue the game purely out of his own volition.  In a tournament situation, I think draw offers of this sort are best ignored, but this is a different (and somewhat unusual) situation.

To be honest, given how the game started, I think if I were in GM Prie's position, I would be a little perturbed by the draw offer.  In my opinion, I think it could be viewed as being a little disrespectful.
  

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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #62 - 08/23/05 at 23:52:08
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This is dumb! Schoupal offered a draw on August 6th, 2005.
Why hasn't GM Eric Prie responded yet?
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #61 - 08/07/05 at 10:38:50
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Dear Markovich,
   5..Bf5 is certainly not =/+. And everything on this site should convince you about this. Both of Challenge Match games showed it (= with Bonsai and +/- with MNb). It is far from your =/+. Am I right? 
Btw. for me, BDG is worth at least 3/4 of a pawn. But consider this, if a gambit variation is worth a full pawn compensation, than it is no gambit at all, is it?


This is about Chess Truth, right?  Bonsai played well and seemed to show that 6. Ne5 c6 is =; but this says nothing about 6...e6! =+.
  

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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #60 - 08/06/05 at 22:01:32
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Isn't (3/4)-1=-(1/4) a =/+?   Smiley

  

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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #59 - 08/06/05 at 17:08:51
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Dear Markovich,
   5..Bf5 is certainly not =/+. And everything on this site should convince you about this. Both of Challenge Match games showed it (= with Bonsai and +/- with MNb). It is far from your =/+. Am I right? 
Btw. for me, BDG is worth at least 3/4 of a pawn. But consider this, if a gambit variation is worth a full pawn compensation, than it is no gambit at all, is it?
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #58 - 08/06/05 at 16:45:31
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...the Blackmar Diemar Gambit is a legitimate opening full of hundreds of rich and interesting possibilities. 

Nothing here has made me change my opinion of this gambit, which is that White gets about one-half pawn's worth of compensation for his pawn.  I will readily concede that it is "full of hundreds of rich and interesting possibilities."  It's chess, isn't it?  But it isn't very good chess for White to subject himself to =+ on move two. 

I particularly have seen nothing to contradict my view that 5...Bf5 is =+.  The play that has resulted in my game with Arkhein certainly has not.  I would note also that in that game, Black's moves have been entirely straightforward, and not at all difficult to find.
  

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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #57 - 08/06/05 at 15:59:52
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1.e4 d5 2.d4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nge2 Nc6 5.d5 Nce7 6.Ng3 Nf6 7.Bc4 Bg4 8.f3 exf3 9.gxf3 Bh3 10.Bg5 Qd6 11.Qe2 a6 12.0-0-0 Ng6 13.Kb1 h6 14.Nge4 Nxe4 15.Nxe4 Qd7 16.Be3 Bf5 17.h4 Bxe4 18.fxe4 h5 19.Qf2 Bd6 20.Rhg1 Rh7 21.Bg5 Nf4 22.Bxf4 exf4 23.e5 Bxe5 24.Bd3 Rh6 25.Qe2

and if 25..f6 then white offers a draw. Mainly because he sees no advantage on the horizon. Unfortunatelly I went wrong somewhere.
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #56 - 08/01/05 at 21:07:56
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While I understand that most comments against us "BDGr's" is made with slight of tongue. I find it interesting that we are will to back everything up with sound analysis and tons of TN in games, while other boards suffice to quote other peoples novelties and claim they understand the positions better.

When I was the only one on the board saying the Blackmar Diemar gambit had some promise people laughed at me, when I presented my analysis people said it was isolated and to correspondence based (in other words would never be played OTB), but now even when Patrik and I have had decent results with it people still refuse to acknowledge there is some merit to my statement that started it all that the Blackmar Diemar Gambit is a legitimate opening full of hundreds of rich and interesting possibilities. 

If the other boards were as labor intensive as this board some of the queries made into the responsiveness to questions in lines would not be possible.
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #55 - 08/01/05 at 20:56:54
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Who said chess was fair?

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