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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match (Read 43100 times)
Markovich
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #84 - 09/15/05 at 11:42:19
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1st of September, I am back Smiley

Of course I accept the draw! This is only a demonstration game to provide material for a future update and definitly close the 4.Nge2 Lemberger and the whole BDG world, Hubsch included, at the same time.
After my mistake on move 4 (Nc6 instead of Bb4) I was dragged, against my will, into the kind of complications that make think the BDGer his variation is alive.
Indeed, it is very hard to resist against such initiative and Patrik's other games on this site have brightly proved it right. I am pretty sure he shall keep doing it against any greedy opponent in any line of its accepted version.
That is why I am at the same time the best advocate of the BDG and its worst nightmare  Smiley with the Lemberger, the practical approach.

Now, I am not one but two pawns up because 25.Qe2 f6 26.Bg6+ Kf8 27.Bxh5? loses to 27...Qb5 28.c4 Qxb2+ the idea spotted by Nexirae, with a safe king on f8 and a monster on e5 (and a miserable rook on h6, true Wink )and I am very sorry Patrik, after having already make you a liar...only I have winning chances that the presence of the opposite coloured bishops actually relativize. 

In fact, I only continued this painful game because I like to disappoint people when they want to mate me  Smiley but I had a hard time in defence to be put my opponent's credit.
Nevertheless, this unpleasantness is simply not in the spirit of the Lemberger and I spent much to much time on this game related to what it was designed for. 
Do not worry, Patrik, you did not miss anything, I would have always come up with a defence, it is the position that claims it, as I predicted from the very beginning!


Perhaps, but I think you were fortunate that White did not play 19. Rdf1.

You're the GM, but I think that accepting a gambit of doubtful soundness is not necessarily a bad way to try to win, though it does involve one in practical difficulties.  E.g. 4. Ng5 is objectively best against the Two Knights, I opine, and analogously here.
  

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Sevenviolets
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #83 - 09/01/05 at 14:45:33
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1st of September, I am back Smiley

Of course I accept the draw! This is only a demonstration game to provide material for a future update and definitly close the 4.Nge2 Lemberger and the whole BDG world, Hubsch included, at the same time.
After my mistake on move 4 (Nc6 instead of Bb4) I was dragged, against my will, into the kind of complications that make think the BDGer his variation is alive.
Indeed, it is very hard to resist against such initiative and Patrik's other games on this site have brightly proved it right. I am pretty sure he shall keep doing it against any greedy opponent in any line of its accepted version.
That is why I am at the same time the best advocate of the BDG and its worst nightmare  Smiley with the Lemberger, the practical approach.

Now, I am not one but two pawns up because 25.Qe2 f6 26.Bg6+ Kf8 27.Bxh5? loses to 27...Qb5 28.c4 Qxb2+ the idea spotted by Nexirae, with a safe king on f8 and a monster on e5 (and a miserable rook on h6, true Wink )and I am very sorry Patrik, after having already make you a liar...only I have winning chances that the presence of the opposite coloured bishops actually relativize. 

In fact, I only continued this painful game because I like to disappoint people when they want to mate me  Smiley but I had a hard time in defence to be put my opponent's credit.
Nevertheless, this unpleasantness is simply not in the spirit of the Lemberger and I spent much to much time on this game related to what it was designed for. 
Do not worry, Patrik, you did not miss anything, I would have always come up with a defence, it is the position that claims it, as I predicted from the very beginning!



Thank you for the game, Eric. I´m not satisfied with the result (draw is a bad result when having white), but it is my fault because I played it bad. That´s not really so much about opening itself as about level of my play in this game (so blame me, not BDG). As for possible improvements, there were several other possibilities for white, unfortunatelly I haven´t time now to analyse it once again. Please mention in your update at least Arkhein´s proposal with 19.Rdf1!? Good summer in France and maybe we´ll meet someday in person. Chess festival Czech Open in Pardubice isn´t so far...

Anyway, BDG wins the match 2 - 1.

As for "practical approach" 4..Bb4, it is too early to call it "a good move" as you haven´t offered any analysis (maybe I did?) and also not many games were played in this line. You recommended once 4.Nge2 Nc6!, only to say some months later "after my mistake on move 4"... I hope it won´t be the same case with your another "recommendation".
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #82 - 09/01/05 at 12:40:11
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GM Prie, 

Thanks for conducting this experiment!  8) It was a generous use of your time.  I only hope that people won't look at the conclusion of the game (a draw against a GM) to avoid what you just said and argue that the BDG drew a GM!
  
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GMEricPrie
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #81 - 09/01/05 at 11:07:52
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1st of September, I am back Smiley

Of course I accept the draw! This is only a demonstration game to provide material for a future update and definitly close the 4.Nge2 Lemberger and the whole BDG world, Hubsch included, at the same time.
After my mistake on move 4 (Nc6 instead of Bb4) I was dragged, against my will, into the kind of complications that make think the BDGer his variation is alive.
Indeed, it is very hard to resist against such initiative and Patrik's other games on this site have brightly proved it right. I am pretty sure he shall keep doing it against any greedy opponent in any line of its accepted version.
That is why I am at the same time the best advocate of the BDG and its worst nightmare  Smiley with the Lemberger, the practical approach.

Now, I am not one but two pawns up because 25.Qe2 f6 26.Bg6+ Kf8 27.Bxh5? loses to 27...Qb5 28.c4 Qxb2+ the idea spotted by Nexirae, with a safe king on f8 and a monster on e5 (and a miserable rook on h6, true Wink )and I am very sorry Patrik, after having already make you a liar...only I have winning chances that the presence of the opposite coloured bishops actually relativize. 

In fact, I only continued this painful game because I like to disappoint people when they want to mate me  Smiley but I had a hard time in defence to be put my opponent's credit.
Nevertheless, this unpleasantness is simply not in the spirit of the Lemberger and I spent much to much time on this game related to what it was designed for. 
Do not worry, Patrik, you did not miss anything, I would have always come up with a defence, it is the position that claims it, as I predicted from the very beginning!
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #80 - 08/27/05 at 17:52:09
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Losetowin, Yes, indeed, black seems to be better, at least =/+
  
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Markovich
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #79 - 08/26/05 at 10:36:32
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I know I am a little late, but I think 19.Rdf1! with the idea of Rf5/Rxh5  is an improvement over 19.Qf2

Now 19..0-0-0? 20.Bxa6!
And the only move to stay with a pawn up for Black (maybe they should give up that pawn) is 19..Be7 20.Rf5 Bxh4 21.Rxh5(Rxh4!?)Rxh5 22.Qxh5 Be7 23.Be2! (with the idea of Bg4) and White have a very nice play for the pawn, one of Black's problem here is the king in the centre. I think that 19.Rdf1 is something like +/= and 19.Qf2 is =

About the actual game, I think the position is equilibrated, but that doesn't necessary mean draw.



19. Rdf1 does look better than the 19. Qf2 played.  In my view, it would have been at least +=.  Black appears to have scant play.  One funny possibility is 19...Bd6  20. Rhg1 Be7  21. Rxf7!
  

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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #78 - 08/26/05 at 05:39:35
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To asess the final positon as a draw i think is very odd. If the game has ended can sevenviolet then post his analysis supporting his claim? I certainly would be very happy with black pieces there.
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #77 - 08/25/05 at 15:47:44
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I know I am a little late, but I think 19.Rdf1! with the idea of Rf5/Rxh5  is an improvement over 19.Qf2

Now 19..0-0-0? 20.Bxa6!
And the only move to stay with a pawn up for Black (maybe they should give up that pawn) is 19..Be7 20.Rf5 Bxh4 21.Rxh5(Rxh4!?)Rxh5 22.Qxh5 Be7 23.Be2! (with the idea of Bg4) and White have a very nice play for the pawn, one of Black's problem here is the king in the centre. I think that 19.Rdf1 is something like +/= and 19.Qf2 is =

About the actual game, I think the position is equilibrated, but that doesn't necessary mean draw.
  
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Losetowin
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #76 - 08/25/05 at 13:59:50
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NO. Black has no winning chances in the position. 

This comment is quite stunning taking into fact black is a pawn up, and white attack has burned out.
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #75 - 08/25/05 at 11:18:00
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Yes Prie should have responded. But i cant understand why sevenviolets think its a 80 % chances of a draw after 25...f6. I think black has good winning chances maybe up to about 50 %. The black pawn superiority makes white fishing for a draw.


NO. Black has no winning chances in the position.
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #74 - 08/25/05 at 11:15:21
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Losetowin did force me to look at the position once again. Of course, he is wrong. It is = or +/= for white. I´m not chickening out from the position simply because it gets worsen. Truth is that I have been able to find only +/=, therefore I wanted to spare our time and offered draw. Of course, if Eric will reject the draw offer I will be playing for a win again in some study-like endgame. I have beated GM once (even much stronger than him) and I can do it once again:) Believe me. Or not.
And I take back my statistics. They were unfounded. It is 15% for white to win and 84% for draw and 1% for black if my computer would burn out and I would be forced to play it on my own.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #73 - 08/25/05 at 10:49:12
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As far as I am concerned, if GM Prie does not respond in another couple of weeks, Patrik Schoupal should be proclaimed the winner by default.  It is disrespectful of  GM Prie to keep silent so long.


Be reasonable.  He's probably on summer vacation.  Or maybe's he's busy with something else.  This is a friendly game; no need to get hot if one side doesn't correspond for a while.
  

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Losetowin
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #72 - 08/25/05 at 06:42:46
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Yes Prie should have responded. But i cant understand why sevenviolets think its a 80 % chances of a draw after 25...f6. I think black has good winning chances maybe up to about 50 %. The black pawn superiority makes white fishing for a draw.
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #71 - 08/24/05 at 21:23:19
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As far as I am concerned, if GM Prie does not respond in another couple of weeks, Patrik Schoupal should be proclaimed the winner by default.  It is disrespectful of  GM Prie to keep silent so long.
  
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Re: Schoupal - Prié, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #70 - 08/24/05 at 14:58:21
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I somehow messed the position up. Now, I want just to spare our precious time, for white trying to hold the position, for black trying to win the position. As I think the odds are about 5% for white win, 80 for draw and 15% for black´s win I offer a draw. It has been quite reasonable decision. I´m also a bit annoyed by "not responding habit" of my last opponent. I would like to finish all this Challenge Match stuff. I think it has been interesting experience, it might have shown something, esp. to those many guys who are deadly opposed to any gambit, esp. BDG one.   
I think there were very few people who thought I can play against Eric for a win, in his beloved anti-BDG line and indeed, I did. Everybody who is going to check the game score can spot that white was attacking and black was defending. He was defending very well. It has shown that in BDG lies a great uncovered potential. 

You know, it is clear that white gets to attack - at least for a bit - that's what you sacrificed a pawn for. On the other hand not being able to sustain the initiative and having black end up being better (even if maybe only a bit, not sure, I haven't tried to evaluate the position properly) is for me a failure of the gambit. Particularly so if the claim is that white should be +/-, but I'm not going to hold anyone to not-so-serious provocative statements that were made just for fun.
  
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