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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE (Read 170233 times)
Gambit
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #142 - 08/06/05 at 11:47:54
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Hello all,

  Why is this thread strangely silent recently? I have good news for you!  On Thursday,  4 Agust 2005, I was at the Marshall Chess Club, and one of my acquaintances approached me. He said that he heard of chesspublishing.com  and even subscribed to it! One reason was, he wanted to see all the BDG games!  Interesting, huh?

In conclusion, here is an interesting game. It is not a BDG, but the attacks are straight from the 19th century!

Zilbermints - cedartree 
Internet Chess Club
5 minute rated blitz,
4 August 2005

FRENCH DEFENSE
Winawer, Advance Variation

1 d4 e6  2 e4 d5  3 Nc3 Nf6  4 Bg5 Bb4  5 e5 h6  6 Bd2 Bxc3  7 Bxc3 Ne4 8 Ne2 Nxc3  9 Nxc3 00  10 Bd3 c5  11 dxc5 Qc7 12 f4 Qxc5  13 Qg4  Nc6  14 Rf1 Nb4  15 Rf3!  Qg1+  16 Kd2!!  A sacrifice a la Adolf Anderssen!  16...Qxa1  17 Rg3   g5  18 fxg5  h5  19 Qxh5  Nxd3  20 g6!! Qe1+  21 Kxd3 Qxg3+  22 hxg3  fxg6  23 Qxg6  Kh8  24 Ne2  Bd7           25 Nf4 Rad8  26 Nh5, 1-0.       
This game demonstrates that avoiding the BDG can just get you into trouble.
« Last Edit: 08/06/05 at 22:00:01 by Gambit »  
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Gambit
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #141 - 08/04/05 at 13:13:47
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You asked for lines with 9...h6 in the Zilbermints Gambit, and now I have the time to respond. Posted are some games with this line.

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 h6

Game 1:

Zilbermints-toro5
Internet Chess Club
5 0 rated blitz
1/21/2003

10 Bd2 c5  11 Nxd4 cxd4 12 Ne4 Ne4  13 Be4 00  14 Qh5 Bf6?? (14...Bg5! holds) 15 Bh6!  gh6  16 Qh6  Re8  17 Bh7+, 1-0.

Game 2:

Zilbermints-Kopiecki, telephone game, 11/24/2001
White plays blindfold

10 Bd2  Nxf3 - Transposing to 9...Nxf3 lines via a different move order-- 11 Qxf3 Bd7  12 Qh3 e5  13 Qh4 Nd5  14 Qh5 Nf6, DRAWN.

Game 3:

Zilbermints-Kopiecki, BDM II, 2001/2002, Game 43/58
3/16/2002
Marshall Chess  Club, New York

10 Bxf6 Bxf6 11 Ne4  Nf5  12 Nf6+ Qf6 13 Qe2 Bd7  14 Ne5 h5?? 15 Bxf5! exf5  16 Ng6+  Be6  17 Nxh8 00  18 Nxf7 Qxf7
19 b3 Bd5  20 Rad1 Re8  21 Qf2 Be4?  22 Qa7, Black overstepped on time, 1-0.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #140 - 08/02/05 at 21:31:20
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Lev's attention to detail surely does inspire confidence don't ya think.  Wink

Toppler Grin
  

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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #139 - 08/02/05 at 13:52:21
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LoL Lev, TopNotch is just right 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5 e3  is impossible because dxe4 has not been played yet. Surely you wanted to say 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5 dxe4 5.f3 e3 Cheesy
  
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Gambit
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #138 - 08/02/05 at 12:48:50
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1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5 de4 5 f3 e3 is what you are asking about?

 

« Last Edit: 08/03/05 at 01:37:21 by Gambit »  
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TopNotch
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #137 - 08/01/05 at 22:50:48
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I hate to interrupt your entertaining diatribe Lev, but I'm  pretty sure that 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 e3 is illegal. Grin

Keep up the good work.

Toppy Grin  
  

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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #136 - 08/01/05 at 21:47:21
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Quote:
Here are my first thoughts on LDZ's second sacrifice.
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 (the reason I am interested in the Euwe Defense) 5.f3 exf3 (e3!?) 6.Nxf3 Be7 7.Bd3 Nc6 8.o-o Nxd4 9.Kh1
a) 9...c6 and I do not trust 10.Nxd4 Qxd4. White can hunt the Black queen a bit. But I do not see how White can break through, if Black defends correctly. What about 10.Qe1 Nxf3 11.Rxf3 Qa5 12.Bd2 ? And White might try 10.Ne5
a1) 10...h6 11.Bf4 o-o 12.Qd2 Nd5 13.Bxh6 Nb4 14.Rad1 Nxd3 15.Qxd3 gxh6 16.Qg3+
a2) 10...o-o 11.Qe1 (11.Qd2 Nf5 and White cannot make progress) h6 12.Bf4 Nd5 13.Nxd5 exd5 14.Bxh6 gxh6 15.Qg3+ Bg5 16.h4.
Fritz thinks Black is better of course, but to me Black's king looks vulnerable.
Blacks move are not forced of course, but White has some useful moves to prepare his attack: Rd1 and Qh4.
b) Until now LDZ has not responded to 9...h6 and I think 10.Bh4 a lame move. Black can safely castle, as White's usual attacking plans are impossible with the bishop on h4. So better might be 10.Bf4 (again) Nxf3 11.Qxf3 o-o (Nc6!? threatens Nb4 again!) 12.Rad1 Nd5 13.Bxh6 (13.Be5 f6 14.Nxd5 exd5 15.Bf4 f5 idea 16...Bg5) gxh6 14.Qg3+ Bg5 15.Nxd5 exd5 16.h4.
No conclusions, as Black improvements will be found without much doubt.

Before I join the White camp, I also must mention 7...Nbd7 8.Qd2 c5!? and 8.o-o c5 9.dxc5 Nxc5.


I will post games with 9...h6 when time permits. Right now I am finishing up registering for the Fall 2005 semester in college.  For now, I will say that yes, after 9...h6 , Bh4 is a bad move. The reason is that the Bishop is pointing in the wrong direction! Often, the Bxh6 sac is decisive in winning the game. Thus, the  correct moves are 10 Bf4; 10 Bd2; and 10 Be3 , in that order.

As far as the sequence  1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5 e3?! is concerned, what do you expect from opponents who are afraid of gambits?  They are cowards. Those who have guts will capture with 4...exf3; those who are afraid of gambits, will chicken out with 4...e3?! The mentality of these opponents goes like so:  Oooh, it's a gambit! Let me chicken out fast! Shocked

Later I will post a few games where I beat the s--t out of the 4...e3 line.  Grin  Nothing makes me angrier than seeing my opponent chicken out like a base yellow coward  with the Langeheinecke Defense, 4...e3. When I see this move played against me, that is a clear signal my opponent does not like gambits or open positions.

Sadly, even master-strength titled players chicken out with 4...e3 in the BDG. Yellow cowardice! That move allows the re-capture, 5 Bxe3. The f-pawn prepares g4-h4 pawn storm should Black castle on the Kingside. And the g1- Knight can go to either e2/h3 depending on taste and position.

 Oh, and did anyone know that Armand Edward Blackmar (1826-1888)    Cheesy was a Confederate veteran of the U.S. Civil War? He invented the Blackmar Gambit,    1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 f3. 

Now, the question is: Do you believe in reincarnation?
Personally speaking, I do. I believe in past lives and reincarnation.

  Emil Joseph Diemer, in my opinion, was the reincarnation of Armand Edward Blackmar. He came back to deal with unfinished business: improving the Blackmar Gambit and making it better. In that he succeeded.

  Want to see some of my predictions about the future?
I will be posting them shortly...in another thread.

But here is one:

In the 2010s, a great world war will come,

Then there will come a clash of two civilizations,

East and West, Mesopotamia and America,

The Barbary Pirates again shall come,

Europe will be ruled by the Evil One,

Happen it will in the first decade after 2001. [2001+10] 


Questions? Analyses? Let me know.

Until then, keep analyzing and debating.

« Last Edit: 08/02/05 at 12:54:13 by Gambit »  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #135 - 08/01/05 at 13:10:39
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1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4 e6 4.Bg5 (French by transposition)dxe4 5.f3 !?! e3(!) and here White could regain the pawn with something like Qd3-Qxe3, followed by Bd3 and Nge2 to stay on g5 with the Bishop, but there is still a loss of tempo with the Queen, but the position is about equal. and after 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e6 4.f3!? e5!? 5.Be3 should be ok for White, it ressemble to the similar 1.d4 d5 2.e4 c6 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.f3 e5 5.Be3! where the pawn is on c6 instead of c7.

There is a game played on 1967 on the chesslive.de database after 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e6 4.f3!? e5!? 5.Be3 where White won, but e5 is still an interesting move.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #134 - 08/01/05 at 10:10:18
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I have come to some of TopNotch's conclusions already a couple of years ago, but was interested in other people's opinion on 5...e3. I also agree, that 6.Bxe3 is simply a loss of tempo. But still I have a few doubts.
i) Compare with the Danish Gambit Declined: 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d3 promises White an edge. Then why not after the mirrored structure with 5...e3 ?
ii) In the French Burn version 5.f3 e3 Black has already shut his queen's bishop in. How important is this?
iii) What about 5.f3 e3 6.Qd3 intending to take with the queen on e3 at some stage?

As I never had much faith, I have never tried 5.f3. Two additional reasons I have mentioned in the post before: 7...Nc6 and 7...Nbd7/8...c5.

But the option to play a classical gambit against the oh so solid Burn Variation intrigues me ... If this deserves a name, than it should be the Peters Gambit, as a certain Peters played this in Zaandam, The Netherlands, a few times about 50 years ago.
  

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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #133 - 07/31/05 at 23:16:32
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I agree with you TopNotch. But MNb did not put the common move order to reach the Euwe defense of the BDG. Effectively the move order he have put could be try by the BDG player to move from a French Rubinstein or Burn variation to transpose into the BDG Euwe defense, but like MNb noticed, e3!? instead of exf3 is more precise and annoying for the BDG player, because compared to 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 f3 e3 4.Bxe3 e6, Black have one tempo up. But like TopNotch said, even with a tempo down, White should manage to draw because there is material equality, and White developpement is natural, with Bd3, Nge2, Qd2, 0-0 or 0-0-0, but I would not be too happy to play on this way with White because of the loss of tempo.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #132 - 07/31/05 at 22:51:46
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1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 5.f3 What exotic name does Zilber have for this one? 

The Zilber French Rubensteinster Gambit perhaps Grin

I like 5...e3 here for three reasons.

A) It wins a useful tempo whenever White captures it.

B) Its damn annoying for White who without the automatic use of the f-file will have to switch on his brain.

C) Last but by no means least, the pawn looks really stupid on f3 where a Knight should be. 

Conclusion, Black is slightly better but White has decent drawing chances with precise play.

Toppylov Grin
  

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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #131 - 07/31/05 at 22:29:26
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Here are my first thoughts on LDZ's second sacrifice.
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 (the reason I am interested in the Euwe Defense) 5.f3 exf3 (e3!?) 6.Nxf3 Be7 7.Bd3 Nc6 8.o-o Nxd4 9.Kh1
a) 9...c6 and I do not trust 10.Nxd4 Qxd4. White can hunt the Black queen a bit. But I do not see how White can break through, if Black defends correctly. What about 10.Qe1 Nxf3 11.Rxf3 Qa5 12.Bd2 ? And White might try 10.Ne5
a1) 10...h6 11.Bf4 o-o 12.Qd2 Nd5 13.Bxh6 Nb4 14.Rad1 Nxd3 15.Qxd3 gxh6 16.Qg3+
a2) 10...o-o 11.Qe1 (11.Qd2 Nf5 and White cannot make progress) h6 12.Bf4 Nd5 13.Nxd5 exd5 14.Bxh6 gxh6 15.Qg3+ Bg5 16.h4.
Fritz thinks Black is better of course, but to me Black's king looks vulnerable.
Blacks move are not forced of course, but White has some useful moves to prepare his attack: Rd1 and Qh4.
b) Until now LDZ has not responded to 9...h6 and I think 10.Bh4 a lame move. Black can safely castle, as White's usual attacking plans are impossible with the bishop on h4. So better might be 10.Bf4 (again) Nxf3 11.Qxf3 o-o (Nc6!? threatens Nb4 again!) 12.Rad1 Nd5 13.Bxh6 (13.Be5 f6 14.Nxd5 exd5 15.Bf4 f5 idea 16...Bg5) gxh6 14.Qg3+ Bg5 15.Nxd5 exd5 16.h4.
No conclusions, as Black improvements will be found without much doubt.

Before I join the White camp, I also must mention 7...Nbd7 8.Qd2 c5!? and 8.o-o c5 9.dxc5 Nxc5.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #130 - 07/31/05 at 20:36:53
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I think 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e6 4.f3?! e5 is an improved version for Black compared to 3...e5.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #129 - 07/31/05 at 14:43:51
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1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 e5 4 Nge2 Bb4 only give equality at best for Black. And for the french, a BDG player should know somes theory on French 3.Nc3 like the MacCutcheon and Classical french, for the Rubinstein variation it can transpose into a BDG. Or White could play pseudo diemer gambit, like the Diemer-Duhm gambit or the Alapin. Personnaly I try 3.Nc3 against the french, where I know the main theory.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #128 - 07/31/05 at 09:32:27
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ArKheiN wrote:
Quote:
You have to find something else to show to the readers that the BDG is bad, and that will not be that easy, see for example a GM like Eric Prié who is searching an easy game for black, he still have not find that yet.   


Black has easy equality in the lemberger 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 e5 4 Nge2 Bb4! That is for me an easy game. And what if he choses to play the french? Alternatively he can face the complications head on with accepting the pawn. Black has so many good chance, he can get an equal, if boring  position, he can transpose to a french, an opening most players will agree is good, or he can boldly go for the complications.
  
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