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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE (Read 170058 times)
Gambit
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #202 - 08/30/05 at 10:49:09
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Quote:
Uggh.

And on the eleventh page, there shall be cowards and chickens.


Very funny!  Grin 8) Wink

Ha-ha-ha!  You got a sense of humor!!
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #201 - 08/30/05 at 09:23:58
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Uggh.

And on the eleventh page, there shall be cowards and chickens.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #200 - 08/30/05 at 06:58:44
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Actually, my  material on the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense to the BDG is so vast as to be enough for a book by itself. Roll Eyes   I am also working on the 8 h3 line in the Bogoljubow Defense.  Grin

   Here is a sample game as to how cowards who chicken out of accepting the BDG get punished:

   LANGEHEINECKE DEFENSE

Zilbermints - Ari Minkov (1943)
G/40 Quad
  Westfield, New Jersey
   28 August 2005

   1 d4 d5  2 e4 de4  3 Nc3 Nf6  4 f3 e3?!  The chicken line.
   5  Bxe3  Bf5  6 g4 Bg6  7 Nge2  h6  8 Nf4  Bh7  9 h4 e6
   10 g5 Nd7  11 g6 Bxg6  12 Nxg6  fg6  13 Qd3  Qf6  14 000 c6  15 Rg1  Qf5  16 Qd2 Qf3  17 Rxg6  Nf6  18 Be2  Qf5  19 Bd3  Qh5  20 Rfg1  Qxh4  21 Bg6+  Kd8  22 Rh1  Qg3  23 Rdg1  Qd6  24 Bf4  Qd7  25 Re1  Bb4  26 Bg5!  Kc8  27 Bf6  gf6  28 Rxh6  Rxh6  29 Qxh6  Kc7  30 Qf4+  Qd6  31 Qf6  Bxc3+ ?  32 bxc3  Qa3+  33 Kd2  Qxa2  34 Rxe6  Qd5  35 Be4  Qb5  36 Re7+  Kb6  37 Qf7+  Ka5  38 Re5, 1 - 0
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #199 - 08/30/05 at 01:38:31
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Yeah, that will be the pitch to the publisher!  ("You call yourself GAMBIT, you bunch of cowards?!"  {a triple pun!})  Though it would probably be a good idea to get the FIDE title out the way first.   Embarrassed  By the way, I think you'd be a great co-author!

As for the title, putting "controversial" behind the opening can't hurt.  It's got to be more appropriate for the BDG, than the Saemisch, right?   Grin  Also, adding a "Parental Advisory" warning might not be such a bad idea either.  The kids go for that.  
  

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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #198 - 08/30/05 at 01:04:19
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To really sell the product one ideally also needs a vaguely well-known name, or if not well-known then at least preceeded by FM/IM/GM. And of course "A realistic view on the BDG, pointing out problems in a dozen lines" won't sell half as well as "The BDG for the attacking player - Crushing your opponents with this gambit that wins by force!". As to content, well, before the book has even been review surely all the enthusiasts will have ordered it anyway Wink.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #197 - 08/30/05 at 00:47:57
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LOL, Smyslov Fan.  I think it's around 2820 now.  BTW, I remember recently someone in these threads comparing the "dynamic" virtues of the BDG with the innovative play of Kasparov.  Heresy!   Shocked

Maybe one day I'll write a book on this phenomena.  Perhaps it could be something like the chess equivalent of Underwood Dudley's books!  Lips Sealed  (mathematics reference)  Of course, I probably fall under the same criticism of Smyslov Fan, even though I fall more on the anti-BDG side.   Undecided  Ha, especially if the thought crosses my mind about writing a book on the subject!  But if the number of threads on the BDG is any indication, people might actually buy it!  Cheesy  There's got to be enough material here to fill a small book already, and that just scratches the surface!
  

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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #196 - 08/30/05 at 00:14:20
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Actually, I have seen Nunn's Chess Openings (NCO)  and it is too dry a book. The BDG is an opening that cannot be lightly dismissed; nor is it a "religion". Shall we dismiss that Queenside counterpart, the Smith-Morra Gambit, lightly? I think not.  Then why treat the BDG in a light manner?

I think it fair to say that various openings have their own fans. Why is it that the BDG gets so much criticism?  Possibly because, despite everything, all attempts to refute it have failed.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #195 - 08/29/05 at 22:03:25
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Markovich, 

I was amazed to see that this thread had broken the 2700 barrier.  It's a shame that there's no parallel between this thread and actually making 2700 elo.  In fact, I agree that the vast energy spent on these lines and the amount of personal commitment to them is so great that the BDG is actually harmful to chess.  It's a sad commentary that what John Nunn was able to dismiss in a few pages in Secrets of Practical Chess will be argued about ad nauseum here.

I tried to point this out in a light-hearted way, but it's a topic that won't die.  Anyone who challenges the religion of BDG will be subjected to ridicule and ostracization by its members.  I don't think we'll be able to save anyone here from its cult.  I say this out of sadness rather than anger because there are some truly gifted thinkers stuck here.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #194 - 08/29/05 at 21:25:16
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Quote:
It's a sad commentary on chesspub that there is so much debate here about this weak gambit.  Chess is so deep, and all these people insist that it is so shallow.

They are like Creationists; faith replaces fact.  They are not playing chess; they are playing the BDG.


Weak gambit? Let me play you in a serious tournament, or on ICC. I am sure I will beat you with the BDG, Markovich. Especially since you cannot use a computer for assistance! Smiley

Didn't Diebert beat you with the BDG in the late 1980s?
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #193 - 08/29/05 at 19:04:59
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It's a sad commentary on chesspub that there is so much debate here about this weak gambit.  Chess is so deep, and all these people insist that it is so shallow.

They are like Creationists; faith replaces fact.  They are not playing chess; they are playing the BDG.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #192 - 08/29/05 at 00:02:39
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I will check the list of GM games posted in the previous response later. It is almost 1 a.m. as I write this. 
As far as Tal is concerned, he did make a lot of interesting
and sometimes, somewhat dubious, sacrifices. Most of the time it worked, since his opponents could not figure out all the variations. 

  Many sacrifices were sound, others, dubious. The thing was, you'd need a computer to figure it out... and the computers of the 1960s and 1970s were quite bulky!!
Plus, you cannot use a computer inwhile playing a game  a chess tournament.

  I like Tal's games. He was a great attacker.

  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #191 - 08/28/05 at 23:51:41
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Thanks, MNb!

Yeah, there are so many ways that GMs offer material that it boggles the mind.  Many casual observers may not even notice that material is hanging because both players act as if nothing's happening and just increase the tension!  In fact, when GMs are playing for a prize and have to win, they often play superficially quiet games which are brimming with sacrifices just under the surface.   

And that's just the material gambits!  It's much tougher to give up positional concessions to get an interesting game, and yet we see that all the time!  Take a look at Watson's two great books, Secrets of Modern Chess Strategy & Chess Strategy in Action for some concrete examples of the many sacrifices GMs make on literally a daily basis.

All that tension is wonderful for us but has also prematurely ended the careers of some great players. Cry

Here's to you, Misha Tal, and all the magic you created (without having to resort to BDGs)!!
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #190 - 08/28/05 at 22:25:38
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Carlsen-Anand, Leon 2005.
Sjirov-Shaw, Gibraltar 2005.
Sokolov-Morozevitsj, Wijk aan Zee 2005.
Kasimdzjanov-Adams, Linares 2005.
Kramnik-Grisjuk, Wijk aan Zee 2005.
Plus at least a dozen rapid games.
In all these games a top GM was behind in material within 10 moves.

"Grandmasters do not play the BDG because they are too conservative and do not wish to give up a pawn."
Must be: GM's do not play the BDG because they think there are better ways to give up material in the opening.

LDZ also neglects the fact, that there are more ways but gambiting to bring a sharp position on the board. I suggest to play through Kamsky-Pruess, Minneapolis 2005. No gambit, but a well conducted sacrificial attack of a kind you will not find often in BDG games. When Black resigned, Pruess was three pawns up.

"I intend to make certain that the glory days of the Romantic School of chess will return."
That is OK. But it is not OK to blame GM's for finding and preferring other interesting ways to attack the enemy king.
  

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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #189 - 08/28/05 at 22:09:34
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GM's normally play serious matchs, or to win a price in a tournament when they play a tournament, not only for fun! If I and even you Lev, were GM, playing against other GM often, for a serious match, or to win the first place of a tournament, I am sure we would forgive the BDG for a standard opening, and only play the BDG on Blitz or CC play! Below the GM class, it's still "fully" playable, but we are not GM, and we generally don't play for money, but mostly for fun, so that's not a problem. When you play for money, you think twice before playing a gambit against a very strong opponent!

Quote:
They are not afraid to play the King's Gambit; Latvian Gambit; Evans Gambit; Philidor Counter-Gambit; but do not want to give the BDG a fair chance? Sounds like a double standard to me.


I think that Evans Gambit it's a nice gambit even at GM level! About the Latvian Gambit, it have a bad reputation, mostly at GM level, but I know there are fan of the Latvian Gambit on CC games like Leisebein is with the BDG. King's Gambit is not that much played at high level, but it's still a playable gambit at GM level.

I would had somes good gambits: The Budapest Gambit (unrefuted and very playable I think, at GM level), the From Gambit after 1.f4 (but here White could play a gambit themselve with 2.e4 transposing into the King gambit Smiley ) But surely the most respected gambit at the best level is the Marshall gambit in the Ruy Lopez, also played at 2700+ and most of White chicken out with anti-marshall with a4 or h3 (I used your term Smiley!!

You might say that if the BDG is playable in CC game, it does mean that it's not refuted yet and playable at GM level (I think that myself from a theorical point of view, but White have to play the best moves, often you can't find it over the board, making the BDG too hard to play on a normal time limit for a tournament or an important match)

And if you are an agressive player, a Gambit is not the only way to attack, the standard openings (for example 1.e4) can be very agressive without having to sacrifice a pawn. If I continue to play the BDG:
1. because it's still a surprise weapon
2. because I don't play against GM or to win the first  price of a big tournament
3. because I am an agressive player, and compensation or not, it's still an agressive repertoire
4. because it's not considered as totally sound by most, so I like to be provocative and I like when my opponent want to show me his "refutation" but at the end, could't refute it.
5. because for the moment I only play it on Blitz and CC where it's a good choice (maybe I will try it on tournament play if I am well prepared; yes it does need a lot of preparation to know the BDG well against Black's different defenses!)
6. oh and the most important, because I have a lot of fun with it, and I have a nice score with it! (still on Blitz and CC, didn't try in tournament yet, but maybe I will do in the future..)
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #188 - 08/28/05 at 21:11:13
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Korchnoi played a BDG in correspondence?  Was this the same guy who also played a French against Maroczy by correspondence? Roll Eyes  (The minor detail that Maroczy was dead is of little significance!)

Ok, GM's are too conservative to play an opening.  I wonder what "conservative" means.  I think in this context, conservative means "good".  (I am somewhere to the left of Ted Kennedy, so when I say this, I wince in pain Sad)  I can accept that.  Go ahead and call the best players in the world what you want.  In psychological terms, it's called "avoidance". Tongue
  
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