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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE (Read 170086 times)
Gambit
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #217 - 09/04/05 at 23:35:14
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"But like usual"... Yeah, right.

Okay, I admit there are typos that are made occasionally. 
However, the balance is that most of my games are accurately recorded. Sure, mistakes happen. But, as a wise man once said, "To err is human". 

  The errors to Chapter 1 will be corrected in the upcoming issue of UON. Thank you for pointing that out. 

  Keep in touch.
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #216 - 09/04/05 at 17:01:57
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Lev, this was a part of your article : 

Quote:
Chapter 1: History
The Euwe Defense to the Blackmar- Diemer Gambit is a solid, yet very passive
set-up. It was originally recommended by former World Champion (1935-1937) Dr. Max
Euwe in 1950/1951 in the German chess press. Euwe’s original line ran 1 d4 d5 2 e4
de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 (Euwe Defense). Diemer continued 6 Bg5 here,
pinning the Knight to the Queen. Now, here Dr. Euwe originally suggested 6...c5?!.
This was refuted brilliantly by
7 Bxf6! Qxf6 8 Bb5+ c6 9 00! with advantage to White. The point is that after
9...cb5 10 Ne5! leaves White with a crushing attack and a lead in development. Thus,
it was not long before improvements were found for the Black side.


But like in usual, you put illegal moves in your analysis : after 6..c5 7.Bxf6 Qxf6 8.Bb5+ c6 is impossible, and cxb5 also Wink  But because I have a good knowledge of the BDG theory, I know that the variation you gave works against 6..h6? 7.Bxf6! Qxf6 8.Bb5+ c6 9.0-0 cxb5 10.Ne5 and White get a winning attack.

The same idea against 6..c5 can be played, but that far from convincing. For example 6..c5 7.Bxf6 Qxf6 8.Bb5+ Bd7 9.0-0 cxd4 10.Ne4 Qg6!? (there is a game from 1990, Leisebein-Papenbrock, 0-1 in 43 moves) and 10.Nxd4 Qe5!? are not that convincing for White. So, I don't think that 6..c5 is refuted.

It's not the first time you do that type of error Lev (impossible moves or wrong variation), and it was in a published article, you should reread what you write, it's a subject that you should know too good to make mistakes likes this and like in the other thread about BDG move order!
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #215 - 09/02/05 at 06:05:40
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I am afraid I cant help, my dad was only born in the 50's so he wasnt really into Losbladige yet Wink
I do have a funny article about Diemer by Donner in dutch from his book "the King", which was written when "Vom ersten Zug an auf Matt" was published. Maybe someone here has the English edition.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #214 - 09/02/05 at 00:19:42
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Your mistake is very understandable, as the Losbladige (a predecessor of ECO btw) was translated in German somewhere in the 50-ies. Alas I do not own a scanner, but I can assure you, that your source was pretty accurate. I just wanted to let you know, as you made quite an effort on the history of the BDG.
You could ask the help of Willempie though. There might be a chance, that his father can help you.
What's worse, I cannot find the original article of Euwe at the moment. But I clearly remember that Diemer-Locher game and Bogoljubov sim game. It was because of this defeat, that Bogo recommended 5...g6.
Keyword: Losbladige. Heck, maybe some searching on internet brings you further.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #213 - 09/01/05 at 23:42:32
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Quote:
LDZ, in your article on the Zilbermints Double Gambit you have made a mistake. Euwe did not recommend 5...e6 in the German chess press, but in the Dutch publication Losbladige Schaakberichten. I own the original.


Okay, MNb, I freely admit the mistake. You see, I do not own the original, and what info I do have led me to believe it was the German press.  My source was a previous issue of BDG World; however it did not state where Euwe published his analyses. Had this little-known fact about the Dutch press been more known, I would not have made the mistake.

  If you do not mind, could you send me a scanned photocopy of the article to my e-mail address on this site?

  Thanks.

By the way, I see you went to the trouble of following the procedures I listed?

  Take care and all the best.

  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #212 - 09/01/05 at 23:26:12
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LDZ, in your article on the Zilbermints Double Gambit you have made a mistake. Euwe did not recommend 5...e6 in the German chess press, but in the Dutch publication Losbladige Schaakberichten. I own the original.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Gambit
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #211 - 09/01/05 at 19:47:44
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Here is the full gamescore.

Peter Leisebein - H. Fitzian
Correspondence, DVC, 2000

   1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4  3 Nc3 Nf6  4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 e6  6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 c6  10 Nxd4 Qxd4  11 Qe1  Qc5  12 Qh4 h6  13 Ne4 Ne4  14 Be7 Qe7  15 Qxe4 f6     16 Qd4 00  17 Rae1 e5   18 a3  g5  19 Qe3  Be6  20 Rd1  a6  21 Rde1  Rad8  22 b4 Rd6  23 Rf2  Rfd8  24 Ref1  Bc8  25 Kg1 Kg7 26 Qf3  Re8  27 Qg3  b5  28 c3 Qa7  29 Kh1 c5  30 Be4 c4 31 Re2  Red8  32 Bc2 Qd7  33 Kg1 Qc6  34 h3 Bb7  35 Rfe1  Rd2  36 Qf2 Rxe2  37 Rxe2 Bc8  38 Re1 Rd6
39 Kh2  Qd7  40 Re2  Bb7  41 Qc5  Rd5  42 Qf2  Qc7  43 Kg1 a5  44 Re1  Bc8  45 Rf1 Rd6  46 Qf3 Qb7  47 Be4  Qa7+  48 Kh2 a4  49 Bc6  Qb6  50 Be4 Bd7  51 Bb1  Qc6
52 Be4 Qc8  53 Qf2 f5  54 Qg3  f4  55 Qf2 Qf8  56 Qa7  Qf6
57 Bc6  Qf7  58 Bf3 Be8  59 Qc5 Qe7  60 Bd5  Kf6  61 Be4 Rd2 62 Qc8  Bd7  63 Qh8+  DRAWN
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #210 - 08/30/05 at 20:44:48
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ATTENTION! ACHTUNG! 

This is the response to ArKheiN's post , #209 :

Do the following operation:

1.  Go to "Groups" on Yahoo search engine.

2. Click  on Unorthodox Chess Openings

3.  Go to "Files"

4. Download Unorthodox Openings Newsletter #10

5.  Do the same operation for UON #12

These contain the first two articles on the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense to the BDG.

  
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #209 - 08/30/05 at 18:41:17
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To Lev : How can we read the BDG World 69 and 70 if we don't have it? And I would like to have the game Leisebein-Fitzian that ended in a draw after more than 60 moves in the Zilbermints gambit, but I can't find that game.

Quote:
Yes, 8..c5 is a better move and I think also 8..h6


I have done a little research on chesslive after 8..h6 and I have found 9 games, with an impressive score of 8.5-0.5 for White :  4 games with 9.Bf4; 2 games with 9.Bd2; 2 with 9.Bh4 and one with 9.Bxf6

I think the 2 critics lines in the Euwe defense are 7..Nc6 that is mostly analysed in this thread, and 7..c5 because they are the most actives responses.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #208 - 08/30/05 at 18:14:57
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Quote:


Yes, 8..c5 is a better move and I think also 8..h6. But I don´t know too much about Euwe or better - I know a bit about many lines here but I haven´t had one concrete favourite move as I played this line in OTB only once before. 
I remembered the plan with 0-0 and Qe1-h4 and some basic motives like Bxh6 sacrifice etc. So I gave it a shot. From theoretical point of view and in correspondence game I would very probably choose different line. This choice was purely practical one.
During the game I was wondering what if 7..Nc6!? Do I go for Zilbermints Gambit or rather choose 8.a3. Probably I would go for a3 because as Lev said, you have to know theory and as for Zilbermints Gambit I didn´t know the theory.


A lot of theory has been posted here, Patrik. Plus, you can e-mail me directly to give you theoretical advice.
Then, read BDG World #69 and #70. Study Leisebein's games with the Zilbermints Gambit. Then, having had a feel for the ZG, you can play it.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #207 - 08/30/05 at 17:28:46
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Quote:
Congratulation Patrik, beating a FM is never an easy task! I often face this position on blitz after 10.Qh4 where many players (even good blitzers)fall into the trap 10..h6? 11.Bxh6! But 10..Re8 seems to be the most solid move here like you noticed. But from a theorical point of view, I think after 1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 e6 6.Bg5 Be7 7. Bd3 Nbd7 8.0-0 c5! may be more precise than the immediate 0-0. What do you think?  After 7..Nbd7, 8.Qe2 is also a good alternative to 0-0, with the idea to Castle long.


Yes, 8..c5 is a better move and I think also 8..h6. But I don´t know too much about Euwe or better - I know a bit about many lines here but I haven´t had one concrete favourite move as I played this line in OTB only once before. 
I remembered the plan with 0-0 and Qe1-h4 and some basic motives like Bxh6 sacrifice etc. So I gave it a shot. From theoretical point of view and in correspondence game I would very probably choose different line. This choice was purely practical one.
During the game I was wondering what if 7..Nc6!? Do I go for Zilbermints Gambit or rather choose 8.a3. Probably I would go for a3 because as Lev said, you have to know theory and as for Zilbermints Gambit I didn´t know the theory.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #206 - 08/30/05 at 17:18:43
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Quote:
That's great news, Patrik! Congratulations on beating the Euwe Defense!
Could you tell us the name of the tournament,  your opponent's name, and where it was played?


Thanks, friends! I´m very happy but still I have a space to improve because I have played every day till 3 or 4 in the morning on ICC, today I will go sleep earlier to be more fresh tommorow.

http://www.tenzor.cz/SKLokoBrno/ ; and click on Trade Chess Festival. Every day, there is a pairings for next round and table of result.
In the 4th round I have also a player over 2200. I´m a bit afraid but I will to play my best.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #205 - 08/30/05 at 14:44:31
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Congratulation Patrik, beating a FM is never an easy task! I often face this position on blitz after 10.Qh4 where many players (even good blitzers)fall into the trap 10..h6? 11.Bxh6! But 10..Re8 seems to be the most solid move here like you noticed. But from a theorical point of view, I think after 1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 e6 6.Bg5 Be7 7. Bd3 Nbd7 8.0-0 c5! may be more precise than the immediate 0-0. What do you think?  After 7..Nbd7, 8.Qe2 is also a good alternative to 0-0, with the idea to Castle long.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #204 - 08/30/05 at 13:59:23
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That's great news, Patrik! Congratulations on beating the Euwe Defense!
Could you tell us the name of the tournament,  your opponent's name, and where it was played?
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #203 - 08/30/05 at 13:33:12
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I want to share my today´s big joy with you. Today, I won against 2232 FIDE ELO opponent playing BDG Euwe defense. 

1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 e6 6.Bg5 Be7 7. Bd3 Nbd7 8. O-O O-O 9. Qe1 c5 10. Qh4 g6 

a) 10... Re8!? what to play now? 11. Ne5 Nxe5 12. dxe5 Qd4+ 13. Qxd4 cxd4 14. exf6 gxf6 15. Nb5 fxg5 16. Nc7 Bd7 17. Nxa8 Rxa8 18. Bxh7+ Kg7 19. Bd3 with only small plus
b) 10... h6? 11. Bxh6! gxh6 12.Qxh6 cxd4 13. Nxd4 Ne5 14. Rxf6 Qxd4+ 15. Kh1+-

11. dxc5 (also strong are 11. Ne4 Nd5 12. c4!+- I didn´t see this move in my calculation or 11. Ne5 Nxe5 12. dxe5 Nd5 13. Ne4! Bxg5 14. Nxg5 h5 15. Qg3 with advantage)
11... Qa5 12. Kh1 Re8 13. b4! (I was calculating the position for 10 minutes and then suddenly I found this easy move... also 13. Bb5! was an interesting attempt, threatens to take knight on d7 and then recollect material on f6, I overlooked this one) 13... Qd8 14. Rae1 (with idea to meet Nh5 by Bxe7 Rxe7 Nd5) a5 trying to confuse things a bit (14... Nh5 15. Bxe7 Rxe7 16. Nd5!) 15. a3 axb4 16. axb4 Kg7 17. Bh6+! Kg8 18. Ng5 Ra3 19. Nb5 (19. Nxf7!! Kxf7 20. Bc1! this killer move I didn't see) 19... Ra4 20. Bc4! Nd5 21. Rxf7 Bf6 22. Nd6 Re7 23. Rxe7 Bxe7 24. Nxe6! (I had only some four minutes on the clock and there was first time control on move 30) Bxh4 25. Nxd8 Bxe1 26. Bxd5+ Kh8 27. N8f7+ Kg8 28. Nd8+ Kh8 29. N6f7+ Kg8 30. Nd6+ (I played these moves to reach the time control. Strangely, my computer engine now showed threefold repetion message, but this is ridiculous, because I was giving check twice with different knight!? Or was it threefold repetition?!?) Kh8 31. Nxc8 Nf6 32. Nf7+ Kg8
33. Ne7# 1-0

I´m very proud on this game because it was quite difficult to not mess this, especially at the end, when I was in time pressure. 

In first round, I beated 2212 player in Morra Gambit and in the second round I lost in time pressure won position against 2251 player in Fajarowitz Gambit. Now, I´m 2/3 against 3 strong players which is my best start ever. Hold me fingers to not mess other rounds.

[/b]
  
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