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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE (Read 170077 times)
MNb
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #247 - 09/10/07 at 22:44:06
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Indeed, 8.a3 is a prophylactic move, not a developing move. Bad sign for a development gambit. And of course after 8...h6 Black will not castle kingside as long as that sac on h6 is possible. Every schoolboy learning chess everywhere in the world should know that.
  

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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #246 - 09/10/07 at 22:34:07
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Wrong. The move 8 a3  prevents 8...Nb4, and keeps the Bd3 in place. It is a prophylactical move, which does contribute to the attack. Now, after 8...h6 White has three options: 9 Bf4, 9 Be3, 9 Bd2. The h6-pawn is a juicy target for a Bishop sacrifice on he should Black Castle there.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #245 - 09/10/07 at 21:42:27
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I just enjoyed a little debate with TopNotch about the role of logic and instinct in opening theory. Both tell me that 7.Bd3 Nc6 8.a3 can't be good for White. Black has developed his pieces to natural squares; White is playing a development gambit. As 8.a3 does not contribute anything to White's attack it looks like White's compensation (a lead in development) is vaporizing.
Sounds nice - but I can't refute 8.a3. That once again reminds me what a patzer I am. Perhaps 8...h6 is the way to go.
  

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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #244 - 09/10/07 at 21:40:13
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I disagree.  If you look at the databases, the move 9...c6 is not all that common. In my experience, the most common line is 9...Nxf3 10 Qxf3, the Exchange Sub-Variation. This line is known to be good for White due to strong pressure on the f-file and rapid development.

I am in the process of putting together a series of articles on the Zilbermints Gambit. In it I deal with the cowardly move  9...c6,  as well as other responses.

Keep in touch.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #243 - 09/10/07 at 09:45:37
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CraigEvans, when you play 7.Bd3 Nc6 you are not forced to play the Zilbermints gambit, 8.a3 is quite good.

The Zilbermints gambit may be good as a surprise weapon and with time limits but it doesn't seem to resist to a good analysis.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #242 - 09/10/07 at 06:08:40
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Two points to consider.

First, I'm not aware -- to paraphrase you -- of players who are going to be able to find this over-the-board, with a clock ticking away. In correspondence play, perhaps, but that is because there is more time allowed, as well as books, etc.

Second, I'm pretty sure improvements exist for White.

Last, shall I get a new horse, resuscitate the old one, or clone a new one?

  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #241 - 09/09/07 at 14:52:20
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Lev,
The line I've posted gives black a clear advantage. If there are no improvements for white's play, then your 7.Bd3 leads to a clear advantage for black. I'd suggest that "?!" might actually be generous if this is the case.
I'm not looking to belittle the idea here, I just want to ascertain it's viability. At the moment, it appears to be bad with best play. The onus is on you to improve white's play - you cannot defend the gambit if you are unable to defend the position.
  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

"If others have seen further than me, it is because giants have been standing on my shoulders."
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #240 - 09/09/07 at 07:30:16
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Well, 7 Bd3 in the Euwe hardly merits a "?!" as you think, Craig.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #239 - 09/08/07 at 19:09:12
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The problem is that none of this is particularly helpful - the critical line has been posted here previously (1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6!? 6.Bg5 Be7 7.Bd3 Nc6 8.O-O Nxd4 9.Kh1 c6 10.Nxd4 Qxd4 11.Qe1 Qc5 12.Qh4 h6 13.Ne4 Nxe4 14.Bxe7 Qxe7 15.Qxe4 f6 - I'm not aware of any moves which have cast doubt on the evaluation of -/+. Therefore, the discussion of a sub-optimal line for black is pointless, surely? Practical chances aside, the gambit is not sound against correct defence. And as shown on other threads, white probably has lines to reach a playable position against the Euwe, so there's no need for him to play 7.Bd3?!

I applaud your pioneering efforts with finding terra incognita, Lev, but sometimes you've got to realise the horse you're flogging is crocked.
  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

"If others have seen further than me, it is because giants have been standing on my shoulders."
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #238 - 08/25/07 at 21:46:14
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You are right, I did not see 15...Nh5!! That said, White already has equality or better even without this speculative two-piece-sacrifice combination.  I was just looking for ways to give White the edge here. Apparently this combination is not the correct way to play.

So, any ideas? Material is even here after 13...Qd4! (iso 13...gxh6??) 14.Qg5 Qg4 15.Qxe5 Bd6  = 
 
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #237 - 08/25/07 at 17:41:33
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It's a pretty idea, which sadly meets with a pretty refutation - instead of 15...Kxg7, black has the almost prozaic 15...Nh5!! attacking the Bg7 with the queen and the Qh5 with the Be7, where black consolidates with his extra loot.
  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

"If others have seen further than me, it is because giants have been standing on my shoulders."
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #236 - 08/22/07 at 06:17:03
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A spectacular way of forcing the draw might  be 14 Rf4! ef4 15 Bxg7! Kxg7 16 Qg5+ Kh8 17 Qh6+ Kg8 18 Qg5+ with a draw by perpetual check.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #235 - 08/22/07 at 03:29:20
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Checked it out:

13...Qd4! (iso 13...gxh6??) 14.Qg5 Qg4 15.Qxe5 Bd6 is dead equal.

10...h6! (iso 10...0-0?) 11.Qh3 e5 12.Qh4 Be6 and White has to prove something. No doubt, that Black would have found this if he either had played through a couple of BDG, Euwe Defence games or simply had more time.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #234 - 08/22/07 at 02:47:54
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Check out this BDG:ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN THE EUWE DEFENSE game!

1. d4 Nf6 2. f3 d5 3. e4 dxe4 4. Nc3 exf3 5. Nxf3 e6 6. Bg5 Be7 7. Bd3
Nc6
8. O-O Nxd4 9. Kh1 Nxf3 10. Qxf3 O-O 11. Qh3 e5 12. Qh4 h6 13. Bxh6
gxh6 14.
Qxh6 Re8 15. Rxf6 Bxf6 16. Bh7+ Kh8 17. Bg6+ Kg8 18. Qh7+ Kf8 19. Qxf7#
{Black checkmated}
1-0


Zilbermints - firehog, G/15 Internet 2007.

« Last Edit: 08/22/07 at 06:21:20 by Gambit »  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #233 - 03/16/06 at 23:45:04
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Dear  Uberdeker,

Thank you for reminding me about that previous post. I had forgotten about it.  Yes, that's correct,  1 e4 h5  2 d4 c6  3 Nc3 d5

Now, as far as  the line 1 d4 Nf6  2 Nc3 d5 3 e4  is hardly a blunder. It is a GAMBIT.   

After 3...Nxe4  4 Nxe4 dxe4 4 Bc4 you have the Hubsch Gambit.

       3...de4  4 f3 leads to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit.

And if Black decides to play something like 3...e6  you have a French Defense.


Please check your messages  on Internet Chess Club.  I challenge you to  a match in the BDG.
  
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