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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE (Read 170150 times)
Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #22 - 06/28/05 at 21:25:16
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I must assume, for accuracy's sake,  that  you mean the following line:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3  5 Nxf3 e6  6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4  9 Kh1 c6 (playing chicken) 

Here I analyze 10 Nxd4  Qxd4  11 Bf6 Bf6 12 Ne4 Be7
13 Qh5 g6  14 Qh6 f5   

Is this correct?
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #21 - 06/28/05 at 21:14:34
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ArKheiN, you must be kidding. After 9...c6  10 Qe1  Qc5
11 Bf6 Bf6  12 Ne4 Be7??  13 Nxc5! wins the Black Queen. Are you sure your analysis is right?
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #20 - 06/28/05 at 17:38:07
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Zilbermints, sorry but there is holes in your analysis.
Between, what can you respond to my line in the 11.Qe1 Qc5 I gave in my previous messages?

And about 11.Bxf6 Bxf6 12.Ne4 Be7 13.Qh5 g6 14.Qh6, there is full of inacurate blacks moves : ..Bd7(playbable, but the best move is ..f5!) 15.Rad1 f5(..Qxb2 is maybe better)  16 Ng3?!  Bf8(Bf8 is ok but maybe more accurate  are ..Qf6 or ..Qe5)  17.Qg5  Qg7  18 Bc4?!  h6?(just a bad move, ..b5 followed by Qh6! or the immediate ..Qh6 and after the exchange of queens  I am 2 pawns up)  19.Qe3 and finally after lot of innacuracy you manage to have some compensation but black still can manage to stay with an advantage.

If you dont wanna read that all, 11.Bxf6 Bxf6 12.Qh5 g6 13.Qh6 f5! is an improvement. Even 13..Qxb2 is better than the ..Bd7 you gave.
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #19 - 06/28/05 at 16:53:30
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ArKheiN, here is my analyses:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 e6  6 Bg5 Be7  7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 c6  10 Nxd4 Qxd4  11 Bxf6  Bxf6  12 Ne4 Be7  13 Qh5! g6 (if 13...0-0??  14 Nf6+! gf6  15 Qh7 mate!) 14 Qh6+ Bd715 Rad1 f5  16 Ng3  Bf8  17 Qg5  Qg7  18 Bc4  h6  19 Qe3 +=

Despite being  down in material, White  has a great attack.  Black is tied up in knots just defending.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #18 - 06/28/05 at 15:40:54
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Zilbermints, I looked at your blitzs games where you played 11.Bxf6 instead of 11.Leisebein's Qe1.
and after 11..Bxf6 you put 3  of your games, 2 with 12.Ne4 Ke7? and 1 with 11.Ne4 Bd7
But Im saying that the best move is 11..Be7.
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #17 - 06/28/05 at 15:31:35
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ArKheiN, please re-read what  my earlier posts on 6/27/2005
about 11 Bxf6!.

Lev
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #16 - 06/28/05 at 12:55:28
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You misanalysed 16 c3 fxe 17 Qf7+ Kd8  18 Rad1 Rf8??this move is losing after Bc4+ or Be2+
18..Qa3 -+ is the best move, until you find a miraculous defense for white.

But you are saying that your favourite move is not 11.Qe1 but 11.Bxf6 right?

-11..gxf6 seems as good as ..Bxf6
-11..Bxf6 12.Ne4 Be7 should be the main defense in this precise line where it is no clear about real compensation of the 2pawn sacrified. Your analysis are welcome.
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #15 - 06/28/05 at 08:47:08
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No, ArKhein. I reply with 16 c3 fxe 17 Qf7+ Kd8  18 Rad1 Rf8  19 Be4  Be7  20 Rd7!  Kd7  21 Rd1+  Kd8  22 Qe6  Qb8  23 Qe5  Kc8  24 Qe6  Kc7  25 Qe7+  Kb6  26 h4! Ka5  27 Rb1  Qb1  28 Bb1 Rf1+  29 Kh2  Rxb1  30 Qh7 =/+=
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #14 - 06/28/05 at 07:30:30
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Ok in your counter refutation after 10.Nxd4 Qxd4 11.Qe1 Qc5 12.Bxf6, the correct move is gxf6 where you put the line: 12...gf6  13 Ne4 Qe5  14 Qh4  f5  15 Qh5 Qb2 16 c3 fxe4 just seems to win without compensation according by fritz.
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #13 - 06/27/05 at 22:35:11
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Grin

correction.

I should mention that after  10 Nxd4  Qxd4  11 Qe1?!  Black has a good idea of White's plans. Here I wonder if this move is really necessary at all. Since Black has not castled yet, why prematurely announce your intentions?  But OK, let me accept the move for argument's sake.  11...Qc5! What is the exclamation point for?

12 Qh4?  This move  is flat out wrong.  Correct is 12 Bf6!
when the following sample variations are possible:

A. 12...Bf6 13 Ne4 Qe5  14 Nf6 gf6  15 Qh4 Qg5  (15...Qe7  16 Qc3 e5 15 Rae1 Be6 16 Rf2 wti  17 Raf1)
16 Qb5 Rg8 17 Rf2 c5 18 Qb5+ Ke7 (18...Kf8  19 Raf1) 19 Raf1 a6 20 Qb6 +=

B. 12...gf6  13 Ne4 Qe5  14 Qh4  f5  15 Qh5 Qb2 16 c3
is one line that can occur. Now, if 16...00??, then  17 Ng5! Bxg5  18 Qg5+  Kh8  19 Qf6+  Kg8  20 Rab1  Qa3  21 Rf3!  Re8  22 Rg3+  Kf8  23 Rg7  Qe7  24 Qh6 Rd8
25 Rxh7+  Ke8  26 Rd1 Kd7  27 Qf4!!  and White has winning chances here. ++-. Of course, this only occurs if 
16...00?? is played. Still, even if Black plays differently, White has active pieces as compensation.

While I have only scratched the surface with the (10 Nd4 Qd4 11 Qe1 Qc5)12 Bf6 gf6 line, I trust this shows that Leisebein's analyses is incorrect.
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #12 - 06/27/05 at 22:31:17
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Grin

I should mention that after  10 Nxd4  Qxd4  11 Qe1?! Here I wonder if this move is really necessary at all. Since Black has not castled yet, why prematurely announce your intentions?  But OK, let me accept the move for argument's sake.  11...Qc5! What is the exclamation point for?

12 Qh4?  This move  is flat out wrong.  Correct is 12 Bf6!
when the following sample variations are possible:

A. 12...Bf6 13 Ne4 Qe5  14 Nf6 gf6  15 Qh4 Qg5  (15...Qe7  16 Qc3 e5 15 Rae1 Be6 16 Rf2 wti  17 Raf1)
16 Qb5 Rg8 17 Rf2 c5 18 Qb5+ Ke7 (18...Kf8  19 Raf1) 19 Raf1 a6 20 Qb6 +=

B. 12...gf6  13 Ne4 Qe5  14 Qh4  f5  15 Qh5 Qb2 16 c3
is one line that can occur. Now, if 16...00??, then  17 Ng5! Bxg5  18 Qg5+  Kh8  19 Qf6+  Kg8  20 Rab1  Qa3  21 Rf3!  Re8  22 Rg3+  Kf8  23 Rg7  Qe7  24 Qh6 Rd8
25 Rxh7+  Ke8  26 Rd1 Kd7  27 Qf4!!  and White has winning chances here. ++-. Of course, this only occurs if 
16...00?? is played. Still, even if Black plays differently, White has active pieces as compensation.

While I have only scratched the surface with the (0 Nd4 Qd4 11 Qe1 Qc5)12 Bf6 gf6 line, I trust this shows that Leisebein's analyses is incorrect.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #11 - 06/27/05 at 21:29:06
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Zilbermints: you say : A game by Peter Leisebein: 
 
10 Nd4  Qd4  11 Qe1 Qb4  etc...1-0, Leisebein - Baer, Germany, correspondence 2000. 
and
  10 Nxd4  Qxd4  11 Qe1 Qc5  12 Qh4  Qb6?  13 Rxf6!! etc ...1-0.  P. Leisebein - Matse Rohde, BDG 04-09  DVC, e-mail correspondence tournament, Germany 2000. 

Ok Leisebein won, but just watch the analysis from Leisebein himself I have put in one of my last messages after 11.Qe1 Qc5! 12.Qh4 h6! as improvement for black that their 2 opponents havent played.

For the rest of your analysis I have to check them when I can.
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #10 - 06/27/05 at 20:57:17
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1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3  5 Nxf3 e6  6 Bg5 Be7  7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 c6

This move is a chicken line  that Black plays, hoping to wait it out.  It  can be an annoyance if played accurately; however, not too many people know what to play here. Black may think he is playing  a Caro-Kann Defense -- which is not the case at all!

  The inaugural game, Zilbermints-Kopiecki, First Blitz-Discussion-Match (BDM I),  Marshall CC, New York, 04.24.1993, continued:

  10 Bf6  Bf6  11 Ne4  Be7  12 Ne5  Nf5  13 g4  Qd5  14 Nf7  Kf7  15 gf5 ef  16 Qf3  Rf8  17 b3 Kg8?  18 Bc4! fe
19 Bxd5  cd5  20 Qe3  Bg4  21 c4  Rac8  22 h3  Bc5  23 Qg3 Bf3  24 Kh2 Rcd8  25 Qg5  d4?? 26 Qc5 d3  27 Qe3 d2  28 Rad1  Bxd1  29 Rxd1, BLACK OVERSTEPPED, 1-0.

  Zilbermints - T. Vialet, off-hand blitz, Marshall Chess Club,  New York, 8/23/1998:

  10 Nd4 Qd4 11 Bf6  Bf6  12 Ne4 Ke7?  13 Qf3 Bd7 14 Rad1 Qe5 15 Rde1 Qd4 16 c3 Qe5  17 Nxf6  Qxf6  18 Qh5  g6  19 Qc5+, 1-0.

   10 Nd4  Qd4  11 Bf6  Bf6  12 Nde4 Ke7?  13 Qf3  Rf8
14 c3 Qe5  15 Rae1 Qd5  16 Qf4 Qxd3 17 Nxf6+  gf6
18  Qxf6  Ke8  19 Rd1  Qxd1  20 Rxd1  Bd7  21 Qg7, 1-0,
Zilbermints - T. Vialet, offhand blitz, Marshall CC, New York, 08.23.1998

   Zilbermints- T. Vialet
   Marshall CC Friday Rapids
   7 May 1999

  10 Nxd4  Qxd4  11 Bxf6  Bxf6  12 Ne4 Bd7  13 Qf3 000 14 Rad1 Qe5  15 Rde1  Qd5  16 Rd1  Qe5  17 c3  Kb8
18 Rfe1  Qc7  19 Nxf6 gf6  20 Qxf6 Bc8  21 Rf1 Rhf8
22 Bxh7  e5  23 Rxd8  Rxd8  24 Re1  Rd7  25 Qh8  Re7
26 Qh8  Re7  26 Bf5  a5  27 Rd1  e4  28 Rd8  e3  29 Rxc8+, Black resigns, 1-0.


    A game by Peter Leisebein:

10 Nd4  Qd4  11 Qe1 Qb4  12 a3 Qg4  13 Bh4  Qg5  14 
Qg3  Rf8  15 Rad1  Qg4  16 Qf2 g5  17 Bg3 Qh5  18 Qd4
Nd5  19 Nxd5  ed5  20 Qe5 f6  21 Qc7  Qg4  22 Bh7  Qd7
23 Bg6+  Rf7  24 Qa5  Kf8  25 Bf7 Kf7  26 c4 b6  27 Qd2 Kg7  28 Bf2 Ba6  29 Bd4 Kg6  30 Qc2+  f5  31 g4 Rf8
32 gf5+  Rxf5  33 Rde1  Bf6  34 Bxf6  Kxf6  35 Qd3  Rxf1  36 Rxf1 1-0, Leisebein - Baer, Germany, correspondence 2000.

  10 Nxd4  Qxd4  11 Qe1 Qc5  12 Qh4  Qb6?  13 Rxf6!!  A great tactical shot that wins in all lines.  Of course, in correspondence chess, with lots of time for analyses, you can do anything you want.  13...gf6  14 Bxf6  Bxf6
15 Qxf6 Rf8  16 Bxh7, Black resigns, 1-0.  P. Leisebein - Matse Rohde, BDG 04-09  DVC, e-mail correspondence tournament, Germany 2000.

  NEXT: HOW POOR KNOWLEDGE OF ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT THEORY CAN COST YOU THE GAME
  
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Lev D. Zilbermints
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #9 - 06/27/05 at 18:25:20
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Zilbermints - Edward Kopiecki
Friday Rapids
5 minute blitz
New York, N.Y. 
Marshall Chess Club
12 October 2001

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7
7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 h6

  10 Nxd4   A rarely used line. Perhaps not the best, as it allows the h-file to be opened. 10...hg5  11 Nce2 Qd6
12 g3 Bd7  13 Qd2 000  14 b4 Qd5+  15 Kg1 Ne4  16 Qe3 f5  17 c4 Qe5  18 c5 g4  19 c6 bc6  20 Nf5 ef5  21 Qa7 Be6  22 Nf4  Bxb4  23 Ne6 Qe6  24 Ba6+ Kd7  25 Qd4+  Qd6  26 Qxd7, BLACK FORFEITS.   
 

  Zilbermints - guest240
  2 12 unrated blitz
  Internet Chess Club
  7 March 2004

   10  Bd2  c5  11 Nxd4  cxd4  12 Ne4 00 13 Nxf6  gf6  14 Qg4  e5  15 Qh5  Bg5  16 Bb4 Re8  17 Qxf7+  Kh8  18 Qg6 Black  Resigns

    Zilbermints - Kopiecki
    Blitz-Discussion-Match II, 2001/2002
    Marshall CC, N.Y.
    Game  49/58
    05.26.2002

   10 Bf4 (for moves 1-9 see above) c5  11 Nxd4 cxd4  12 Ne2 Nd5 13 Nd4 Nf4  14 Rf4  e5  15 Rf7  Kf7  16 Qh5+?! Kg8  17 Bc4+  Kh7  18 Rf1??  Qd4!  19 Be3 e4!     -++  20 Bd3  Be6, 0-1

   Zilbermints - Kopiecki
   BDM II, 2001/2002
   Marshall CC, N.Y.
   Game 50/58
   05.26.2002

   1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 e6  6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6  8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 h6  10 Bf4 c5  11 Nd4 cxd4 12 Ne2 Nd5  13 Nd4 Nf4  14 Rf4 e5  15 Rf7 Kf7 16 Bc4+!  An important  improvement over the previous game. Now White wins easily.  16...Kf8  17 Qh5!, and here my shocked opponent, Eddie Kopiecki,  RESIGNED.

   (Moves 1-17 as in Game 50) 17...Qe8  Kopiecki tries to find an improvement. 18 Qe5  Bd7??  19 Rf1! Bf6 20 Rxf6! 1-0, Game 51, Zilbermints-Kopiecki, BDM II, 2001/2002, 05.26.2002, Marshall CC, New York, New York.

   9...h6  10 Bd2 Nc6  11 Bb5  Bd7  12 Qe1 a6  13 Bc4 Bd6  14 Rd1 Qe7  15 a3 000  16 b4  Na7  1[font=Verdana][/font]7 Qf2 Kb8  18 h3 Bc6  19 Be3  Nb5  20 Bxb5 ab 21 a4 ba4 22 b5 Bxf3 23 Qxf3 a3  24 b4 c6 25 Rfe1 Bb4 26 Bf4+ Kc8 27 Ra1 Qc5?  28 Na4  Qd5  29 Qe2 Be1  30 Qxe1 Qc4  31 Qe5  Nd5  32 Bh2  Qxa4  33 Rd1  Rd7??  34 Qb8 mate, Zilbermints - Eric D'Agostino, G/30 minutes, Polgar Chess Authority, New York, 10/23/1997.

   9...h6  10 Bd2 c5  11 Nxd4  cxd4  12 Ne4  Ne4 13 Be4 00  14 Qh5  Bf6?? (14...Bg5! holds) 15 Bh6! gh6  16 Qh6 Re8 17 Bh7+, 1-0, Zilbermints - toro5 (1856) ICC 5 0 r blitz, 1/21/2003.

   9...h6  10 Bf6 Bf6  11 Ne4  c5  12 Nf6 Qf6  13 Nd4 Qd4
14 Bb5+  Bd7  15 Qe3 00  16 Rfd1 Qb2  17 Bd7  Rad8
18 Rab1  Qc2  19 Qxb7  Rb8  20 Qb8  Rb8  21 Rb8+  Kh7
22 R8b1  c4  23 Re4  c3  24 a4 e5  25 Bc6, 1-0, Zilbermints-Kopiecki, Marshall CC, N.Y., BDM II, Game 45/58, 03.16.2002.

   I will add 9...c6 a bit later today.
  
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Re: BDG: ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT IN EUWE DEFENSE
Reply #8 - 06/27/05 at 17:50:46
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If you read what I say in the end of my message, I just copy and past what Leisebein has said, Im not the one having said that your name is Zilberstein etc..

You say that you only use memory in a blitz against your opponent. But let's imagine I am black, and I have analysed for days a good variation in your gambit for blacks. I face you and I play 7..Nc6 and I play by memory the nice variation I have found, isn't accurate analysis important? That was the point of my idea about finding the best moves for white and black. If your line can't be refuted in a correspondant game, it can't be refuted in a blitz! The guys you meet in internet surely faces the variation for the first times or they haven't analysed deeply the position before, so you can't say they played the best moves and only do analysis with a blitz match. You seems to believe that we are like your ennemy or ennemy of your gambit, but no, Im a defender of BDG, we just want to know the "truth" about your gambit, with the idea of playing it without being refuted by a guy who analysed it a lot with blacks. 
 
  
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