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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match (Read 10917 times)
Markovich
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #23 - 07/06/05 at 19:12:37
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1.d4 d5  2. e4 dxe4  3. Nc3 Nf6  4. f3 exf3  5. Nxf3 Bf5  6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6  9. g5 Nh5

My choice was simpler than I thought.  Such moves as 9...Qxd4 and 9...Bh5 unhinge Black's game and do not conform to my idea of how to play chess.  9...Nfd7 looks too retrograde.  9...Ng8 is absurd.  I wanted mostly to consider the Alekhine-like 9...Nd5, which looks a little more active than 9...Nh5.  The problem then is 10. Bd3 and Black can't play, as after 9...Nh5, 10...Qxd4.  I leave it to ArKheiN and the other BDG afficionadoes to give the gory details of these lines.

So now I have a rim-knight; big deal!  It has potential activity via f4, and keeps a White bishop from going there.  If White exchanges on g6, as he will probably have to do as soon as I play ...Nd7, my knight will be well protected and my h8 rook will be somewhat active.  I have analyzed in Schoupal-Bonzai what I think should come of 10. Bd3.  I expect 10. Be3, since it appears to be the only sound way for White to claim some compensation.  It only remains to be seen what the Quinones notes (mentioned by ArKheiN) consist of.  If I am to be outbooked, so be it!

I am rather confident that I have just played the best move.   Whether White has enough compensation now is what this game will decide.  My present opinion is =+: White has about half a pawn's compensation for his pawn.
  

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ArKheiN
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #22 - 07/06/05 at 17:27:03
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Now markovich has to choose between 9..Nd5 ; 9..Nfd7 ; 9..Bh5 ; 9..Nh5 ; 9..Ng8 and 9..Qxd4?!
It would take a lot of place to put all my analysis against every Black's response but I will try to put somes analysis tomorow. This is quite a difficult path because the way of playing is very different in each move and it's hard to say wich line is really the best. 
Actually Im practicaly prepared to every Black's response but I have to choose the most accurate response to 9..Nh5!? but I have some ideas about the way of playing it for white here.
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #21 - 07/06/05 at 14:45:18
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1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 Bf5 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8. Qf3 Nd5  

Quote:
A) 9.Bb5+ c6 10.O-O Nf6 11.Be3 cxb5 12.Qxb7 Nbd7 13.Nxb5 Rc8 14.Nc6 Rxc6 15.Qxc6 Qb6 16.Qc8+ Qd8 17.Qc6=


The point of 11.Be3 is effectly the possibility of playing as in the 11.Rf2 without the 14..Nc5!! possibility here, and if my evaluation of 11.Rf2 are right, 11.Be3 is the best move. And if 9.Bb5 is the right move, it appear with our analysis that White (or Black?) have no better here than draw with 11.Be3 cxb5

Anyone have an improvement for Black or White  that Patrik and me have missed?

Quote:
B) 9. Bd3!? Qh4+ (9... Nc6 10. Bb5 Qh4+ 11.Kf1!? or Kd1 with transposition) 10.Kd1 Nc6 11. Bb5 (11.Nxd5 exd5 12. Re1 O-O-O 13. Bf5+ Kb8 14. Nxc6+ bxc6 15. Qb3+ Ka8 16. Qa4=) 11... O-O-O 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Nxc6 Rd6 14. Nxa7+ Kb8 15. Nab5 unclear. Shredder gives small advantage to black. It is strange as white is a pawn up. Fritz evaluates this as =. It needs to be checked in more depth. But I somehow feel it is not the right way. 


When I analysed 8..Nd5!? some month ago I was searching for an improvement for White before finding the Bb5+ and I did a deep analysis of every Whites best reponses other than Bb5+ and Black had -/+ or even -+ in the end, even in the variations that Patrik gave here.
It's for that I think that 9.Bb5+ is practically forced. The problem is that I lost thoses analysis I wrote, so I have to do it again and it will take me hours again but I will do it if needed.

  
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Sevenviolets
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #20 - 07/06/05 at 13:47:28
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1.d4 d5  2. e4 dxe4  3. Nc3 Nf6  4. f3 exf3  5. Nxf3 Bf5  6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9.g5

8..c6 is logical, solid and the main move.
But I have some times ago analysed 8..Nd5!?gaining time over c6 in some variations and add the possibility of Qh4 wich really deserve attention to me, if I was Black I would surely try it to play for a win wich is a bit unexplored. Here can follow 9.Bb5+(Practicaly forced to me, Black being very good against any other response, and Bb5+ is profiting that c6 has not been played to gain a tempo to castle with attack on f7)..c6 10.0-0 Nf6! and here, 2 choice for White : 11.Be3 or 11.Rf2 where this move was assessed like a good move after ..cxb5 12.Qxb7 Nbd7 13.Nxb5 Rc8 14.Nc6 Rxc6 15.Qxc6 etc with a good play for White but I found that 14..Nc5!!leading to a forceful and advantageous play for BLack after 15.Nxd8 Nxb7 16.Nxb6 Ne4 17.Re2 Rb8 18.Rxe4 Rxb7 19.Nc3 Bxe4 20.Nxe4 =/+ at minimal
So 11.Be3 is maybe the best and need deep analysis.

8..Nbd7  is quite interesting after 9.Nxg6 hxg6 10.g5, but it's a rare move that I have not seriously analysed yet, but at first sight it doesnt'seem specialy promising for Black.


1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 Bf5 6.Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8. Qf3 Nd5 

A) 9.Bb5+ c6 10.O-O Nf6 11.Be3 cxb5 12.Qxb7 Nbd7 13.Nxb5 Rc8 14.Nc6 Rxc6 15.Qxc6 Qb6 16.Qc8+ Qd8 17.Qc6=

B) 9. Bd3!? Qh4+ (9... Nc6 10. Bb5 Qh4+ 11.Kf1!? or Kd1 with transposition) 10.Kd1 Nc6 11. Bb5 (11.Nxd5 exd5 12. Re1 O-O-O 13. Bf5+ Kb8 14. Nxc6+ bxc6 15. Qb3+ Ka8 16. Qa4=) 11... O-O-O 12.Bxc6 bxc6 13.Nxc6 Rd6 14. Nxa7+ Kb8 15. Nab5 unclear. Shredder gives small advantage to black. It is strange as white is a pawn up. Fritz evaluates this as =. It needs to be checked in more depth. But I somehow feel it is not the right way.
  
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #19 - 07/06/05 at 12:29:04
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I think 9...Nh5 is best now, but it may be a few days before I reply because, as I said, I want to review Black's options here.

Thanks to ArKheiN for sharing 8...Nd5!?
  

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ArKheiN
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #18 - 07/06/05 at 11:30:33
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1.d4 d5  2. e4 dxe4  3. Nc3 Nf6  4. f3 exf3  5. Nxf3 Bf5  6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6 9.g5

8..c6 is logical, solid and the main move.
But I have some times ago analysed 8..Nd5!?gaining time over c6 in some variations and add the possibility of Qh4 wich really deserve attention to me, if I was Black I would surely try it to play for a win wich is a bit unexplored. Here can follow 9.Bb5+(Practicaly forced to me, Black being very good against any other response, and Bb5+ is profiting that c6 has not been played to gain a tempo to castle with attack on f7)..c6 10.0-0 Nf6! and here, 2 choice for White : 11.Be3 or 11.Rf2 where this move was assessed like a good move after ..cxb5 12.Qxb7 Nbd7 13.Nxb5 Rc8 14.Nc6 Rxc6 15.Qxc6 etc with a good play for White but I found that 14..Nc5!!leading to a forceful and advantageous play for BLack after 15.Nxd8 Nxb7 16.Nxb6 Ne4 17.Re2 Rb8 18.Rxe4 Rxb7 19.Nc3 Bxe4 20.Nxe4 =/+ at minimal
So 11.Be3 is maybe the best and need deep analysis.

8..Nbd7  is quite interesting after 9.Nxg6 hxg6 10.g5, but it's a rare move that I have not seriously analysed yet, but at first sight it doesnt'seem specialy promising for Black.
  
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #17 - 07/06/05 at 08:35:57
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1.d4 d5  2. e4 dxe4  3. Nc3 Nf6  4. f3 exf3  5. Nxf3 Bf5  6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3 c6

Some years ago, my chessfriend Wilson Gibbins and I analyzed 8...Nbd7 hoping to prove that Black was O.K..  But I am not entirely sure that he is (one of his main problems being the a4-e8 diagonal), and in any case, I would rather keep the extra pawn for the time being.

I suppose you could say Black loses a tempo here, but ...c6 is not unconstructive, and 8. Qf3 is rather commital.  Just thinking subjectively about the resulting position, my main worry is that powerful knight on e5.  On the other hand I have high hopes of confronting it with ...Nbd7.  For the longer term I also have to worry about the potential weakness of my central dark sqares.   

Provisionally, if 9. g5 I plan 9...Nh5, a move which I have advocated in earlier debates on this forum.  I faced 9. g5 in a U.S. Absolute CC a few years ago and after some analysis, I concluded that 9...Nh5 was strongest.  My analyses since then have not contradicted that conclusion.  I played it and went on to win.  However, I do not offer a conditional move because if 9. g5 is played, I will review Black's options.
  

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ArKheiN
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #16 - 07/06/05 at 08:15:55
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1.d4 d5  2. e4 dxe4  3. Nc3 Nf6  4. f3 exf3  5. Nxf3 Bf5  6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Qf3


Still a classical way of playing from White and Black here.
The main alternative is 8.Bg2 but I think it's just a question of taste, and I have more experience with 8.Qf3 but I know that Patrik Schoupal for example would surely play 8.Bg2 with a chance for an advantage, but I let it for a future Patrik-Markovich match maybe?

Markovich has surely choosen most solid move.

Just to give what I think about 7. Black's other response : After the sacrifices : 7..Ne4 8.gxf5 and white have surely an advantage, for example ..Qh4 9.Ke2 Qf2 10.Kd3 Nc5 11.Kc4 a6 12.a3!!

7..Nfd7 8.gxf5 Qh4 9.Ke2 Nxe5 10.dxe5 Qg4 11.Kd3 Qxf5 12.Kd2 Be7 13.Qe1 Nc6 14.Bd3 0-0-0 and is about unclear but I would not play it with Black.
7..Bxc2 8.Qxc2 Qxd4 9.Qe2 Bd6 10.Nf3!
7..Be4 is playable, but against 8.Nxe4 Nxe4 9.Qf3 (Qd3!? - P. Schoupal) there is no better than draw for Black.


  
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #15 - 07/06/05 at 07:37:22
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I am pretty sure Markovich will play the Nh5 variation. We have argued back and forth about this for months. I told him that I am pretty secure with saying white will draw, but he repeatedly has argued that it is a win for Black, so I hope he will warrant that claim in this match.


I say that it is better for Black, not that it is necessarily a win.
  

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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #14 - 07/06/05 at 07:34:45
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1.d4 d5  2. e4 dxe4  3. Nc3 Nf6  4. f3 exf3  5. Nxf3 Bf5  6. Ne5 e6 7.g4 Bg6

In the spirit of the Search for Truth, I would request that anyone wishing to contribute to White's or Black's cause do so with public analyses posted here.  That will be much more informative, and a lot more fun!   

They say that in these days there are no more chess principles, only the specifics of given positions.  Unfortunately my knowledge of chess is so limited that I almost always do rely on general principles!  Here I prefer to play a simple move, rather than seek complications in a position where I am a pawn up with no weaknesses.   Let the burden of proof remain with White.  Also subjectively, 7...Be4 and 7...Ne4 just do not look like good chess to me.

White compromises his kingside pawn structure with 7. g4, but he risks little since, with his pawn-minus, the ending is bad for him anyway.   In the mean time, my bishop is active on g6.   

Some years ago I confronted Chuck Diebert over-the-board in this position and the game continued 8. g5? Ne4  9. Nxg6 Nxc3  10. bxc3 hxg6.  With two sets of minor pieces exchanged, White had even less compensation than normal.  I continued to play well, but I used up a fair amount of time and eventually, with about two minutes still showing on my old Jerger and just two moves to make the time control, my flag fell!  I was two pawns up by then, but Diebert, who is an excellent tactician, had stirred up plenty of trouble. 

  

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MNb
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #13 - 07/06/05 at 05:23:33
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Teyko's argument: yes.
My answer on his final remark: no. If it were yes, it would have been picked up a long time ago.
  

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Teyko
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #12 - 07/06/05 at 00:22:41
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Lev I have read your posts and given you the benefit of the doubt as far as your intentions in advancing the Blackmar Diemar Gambit, but this is ridiculous. 

For those of us who are actually trying to find the most correct moves and contribute to theory this is the most appropriate way to do so. 

Charles Diebert for example as been more than interested in my findings (he will know me as Tommy J. Curry) even though they were computer checked. 

Dude no one here is interested in the fact of whether or not you can win a blitz game; we are interested in knowing whether the Blackmar Diemar Gambit can be played at higher levels.
  
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #11 - 07/05/05 at 23:02:32
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Good to see that ArKheiN has appeared again. He has not been answering my queries about the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense of the BDG for awhile.
And since I am on the subject, I suggest ArKheiN look up the game Leisebein-Fitzian, corr. 2000, which ended in a draw after 63 moves.

The point is that ArKhein said that after 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6  6 Bg5 Be7  7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4  9 Kh1 c6  10 Nxd4 Qxd4 11 Qe1 Qc5 12 Qh4 h6  13 Ne4 Ne4 14 Be7 Qe7 15 Qxe4 f6 was -+ for Black.
However, the game continued 16 Qd4 00 17 Rae1 e5
18 a3 g5 19 Qe3 Be6 20 Rd1 a6  21 Rde1  Rad8  22 b4 Rd6 23 Rf2 Rfd8 24 Ref1 Bc8 ... and DRAWN on move 63.
That is first.

Second, looks like I was smart not to play correspondence. From what I read here, people use computer databases these days. So let someone else, an experienced correspondence player, figure it all out.
As I stated earlier, I do not trust correspondence chess these days, with its proliferation of computers databases and analyses.

  It will be interesting to see who wins the match.
  
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MNb
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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #10 - 07/05/05 at 21:51:25
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One of the ideas of these games, Teyko, is to allow anyone kibitzing and send in his comments!
I find it a pity, that you have not commented (yet?) my game against Patrik.
  

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Re: ArKheiN - Markovich, 2005, BDG Challenge Match
Reply #9 - 07/05/05 at 21:05:33
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I am pretty sure Markovich will play the Nh5 variation. We have argued back and forth about this for months. I told him that I am pretty secure with saying white will draw, but he repeatedly has argued that it is a win for Black, so I hope he will warrant that claim in this match.
  
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