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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1. Nc3 (Read 11884 times)
Uberdecker
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #29 - 08/08/06 at 16:17:01
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MNb and I have covered this subject extensively in the thread "Switching from 1.e4 to 1.d4" in the "General Chess" section Our conclusion is that White avoids nothing with 2. Ktf3 and 3. d4. Quite the opposite in fact, he sets new problems for himself.
  
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Jonathan Tait
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #28 - 08/08/06 at 16:03:17
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MNb wrote on 03/16/06 at 03:21:58:
IMO the main attraction of the Van Geet Opening is tricking Black in an inferior Sicilian: 1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 followed by 3.d4. White saves the move e2-e4


personally I've never found that to be of any great use as White

though maybe that's because I don't want to play Open Sicilians at all
  

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Dragonslayer
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #27 - 08/08/06 at 15:11:50
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I sometimes play 1.Nc3 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.f3 transposing into a BDG without d4 after 3...exf3 or the KG declined after 3...e5 4.fxe4. Another idea is 1.Nc3 g6 2.h4 forcing Black to decide on h7-h5 (weakening g5 permanently) immediately. I think this is more of a concession for Black than White's h2-h4.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #26 - 08/07/06 at 19:08:58
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Yes, and I also advocate 1.Nc3 a6 2.g4!?  Wink  Actually, that might not be too bad.
  
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MNb
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #25 - 08/07/06 at 03:03:45
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Have you become a disciple of LDZ?  Grin
This should be called the Van Geet Gambit, as the guru himself played it already in Rotterdam 1958. His opponent declined: 2...d5 3.g5 d4. I have found no less than 14 games with this, White having a remarkable 61%.
After 2...Nxg4 3.e4 d6 White has tried 4.d4 e5, 4.f3 (3 games, 3 wins!) when Nf6 5.d4 Nbd7 and 6...e5 looks solid and finally 4.Be2 Nf6 5.d4 e5 6.Nf3.
  

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Glenn Snow
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #24 - 08/06/06 at 01:57:14
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Played a gambit variation recently that I haven't seen before, but no doubt someone has already played and analyzed it.  1.Nc3 Nf6 2.g4 (Obviously similiar to 1.d4 Nf6 2.g4 to which it could very well transpose.)  I don't know if it's equal, better, or inferior to the queen-pawn version since I've only tried it twice and those games didn't reveal anything. Both went 1.Nc3 Nf6 2.g4 Nxg4 3.e4 e5??, seems an odd blunder as they both had fairly decent ratings.  Maybe they quickly looked at 2...Nf6 and saw that it lost some time after 3.e5 and they thought they'd put a stop to that.  I imagine that 3...d6 is the best move when I can't imagine White having enough compensation.  I still thought there are those that might want to try it out at least in Blitz chess though.
  
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #23 - 03/16/06 at 13:36:33
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Spot on, MNb.
  
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MNb
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #22 - 03/16/06 at 03:21:58
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IMO the main attraction of the Van Geet Opening is tricking Black in an inferior Sicilian: 1.Nc3 c5 2.Nf3 followed by 3.d4. White saves the move e2-e4 and Black must watch out for tricks based on Bf4 (or Bg5) combined with Nd5 or Ndb5.
White possibly can play an Open Sicilian while avoiding the Najdorf and Svesjnikov.
The second attraction is tricking Black in an inferior Scotch: 1.Nc3 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 with about the same ideas.
But White has voluntarily limited his options after 1.Nc3 Nf6. As the transpositions will not be to the taste of players of the Sicilian, their best option is probably 1.Nc3 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nxe4 Nf6 indeed. As Van Geet himself explained a few years ago, White will usually avoid d2-d4 and Black c7-c6.
  

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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #21 - 03/15/06 at 19:29:29
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Indeed I concur. There is no point to 1. Ktc3. It has no independant significance, other than the fact that it allows Black some interesting options in addition to all the usual KP Defences (1. ...Ktf6 is a good move for 1. e4 e5 players; 1. ...c5 ; 2. d4!? cd ; 3. Qxd4 Ktc6 ; 4. Qh5 is the kind of position a Sicilian player should be comfortable with ; 1. ...g6 is a Modern with Ktc3, which solves the move-order problems that a lot of players of the Black side may have). Perhaps ironically the only thing it does prevent is the "Van Geet Defence"! (1. e4 Ktc6 ; 2. d4 e5) since 1.Ktc3 Ktc6 ; 2. d4 d5 ; 3. e4 is the "pure" Nimzo KP Defence ( players of this should also check out the SOS solution of 1. ...d5 ; 2. e4 ed ; 3. Ktxe4 Ktc6!?, unobtainable for Black after 1.e4).
Other independant lines for Black are :
1. ...a6!? ; 2. g3!? d5
1. ...e6 ; 2. e4 a6!?
1. ...e6 ; 2. d4 (or 2. e4) Bb4!?

All very interesting, but only Black has the choice of entering these lines

Note that I'm not bashing the "Van Geet variation" 1. e4 d5 ; 2. Ktc3 , which while uncritical is not a bad attempt at avoiding the main lines of the Scandinavian, since 2. ...de ; 3. Ktxe4 Qd5!? may be answered by the untried 4. Qf3. But let's face it, the Main attraction of 1. Ktc3 is that Black might answer 1. ...d5 ; 2. e4 d4 when White has definite chances to play for a win!
  
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Strptzr
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #20 - 03/15/06 at 13:05:55
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It is a fact that in the positions from the 'exchange' variation (1.Nc3, d5 2. e4, de4 3. Ne4) Black often resorts to c6 and -hence- transposes if White has opted for d4 in stead of d3. For instance : 3...Nf6 4. Nf6:
, ef6: 5. d4 and now c6 is the Korchnoi variation of the Caro-kann ... if I'm not mistaken: white is by no means forced to 'oblige' Wink The fact that you often end up in near-transpositions accounts for a great part of the fun of playing these lines.
  
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #19 - 03/15/06 at 11:11:26
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RotGut wrote on 02/01/06 at 19:18:04:
A few months ago I found myself in the Van Geet via transposition from the Caro. As black I can not remember the line or move order which lead to this....any ideas?


Perhaps:
1. Nc3 d5
2. e4 c6
3. d4 dxe4

or

1. Nc3 d5
2. e4 c6
3. Nf3
?
I thought it a bit peculiar using the Van Geet solely as a transpositional tool. Surely there are better alternatives for White than playing 1. Nc3 with this in mind.

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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #18 - 02/02/06 at 01:57:21
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Strptzr wrote on 01/31/06 at 14:26:14:
Just curious : what would your (black) next move be, then ?


Like I said, 11...Qe8.
  
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RotGut
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #17 - 02/01/06 at 19:18:04
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A few months ago I found myself in the Van Geet via transposition from the Caro. As black I can not remember the line or move order which lead to this....any ideas?
  
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chessy
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #16 - 02/01/06 at 12:13:26
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I would go for 1...d5. seems the most logical to me. As after 2.e4 dxe4 it is very similar to the caro-kan. But black has the option to play c7-c5 straight (not c7-c6-c5). So it can`t be dangours for black. A later c6 transpose often to a caro-kan.

In addition, if you look for a none caro-kan set up, there would still be the option of 3...Nc6 after 2...dxe4 3. Nxe4.
As after 4. Bb5 Qd5 looks strong.
  
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Strptzr
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Re: 1. Nc3
Reply #15 - 01/31/06 at 14:26:14
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Just curious : what would your (black) next move be, then ?
  
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