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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc3 (Read 16076 times)
sssthepro
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #20 - 04/07/07 at 11:23:21
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The Rosolimo is the best!
  
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MNb
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #19 - 04/06/07 at 20:34:44
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I think it's a matter of practical positions OTB, where "tedious", "equal" and "drawish"  are not the same for most players.

So, with early ...e6, a Sveshnikov player has to endure equal lines in the 4-knights + 6. Nxc6 which can lead to tedious or risky positions, while giving himself the possibility to play the 4-knights "for real" and ruling out 3. Bb5 and 3. Nc3 after 2...Nc6. I think it is an interesting option according to which anti-sicilians one prefers to avoid.


Or risk a small, but sound advantage for White after 6.Nxc6. The simple fact is, that this variation has not as good a reputation as the Svesjnikov itself.
  

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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #18 - 04/06/07 at 09:19:25
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I think it's a matter of practical positions OTB, where "tedious", "equal" and "drawish"  are not the same for most players.
- 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 is arguably tedious no matter what, and i would'nt call it equal nor drawish ;
- 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 is challenging for sveshnikov players, when White concedes nothing apart the possibility to play c4 against ...g6. if Black doesn"t like 3...e6 or 3...g6 he can go 3...e5, but then it is either tedious+drawish (Leko variations, including some perpetual checks) or risky (Sveshnikov gambit, is it still alive ?). The same is true for the 4-knights with 6. Nxc6, Black can chose to play it tedious (...Bb7) or risky (...Qa5), unless the latter is definitely out of business ?

So, with early ...e6, a Sveshnikov player has to endure equal lines in the 4-knights + 6. Nxc6 which can lead to tedious or risky positions, while giving himself the possibility to play the 4-knights "for real" and ruling out 3. Bb5 and 3. Nc3 after 2...Nc6. I think it is an interesting option according to which anti-sicilians one prefers to avoid.
  
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #17 - 04/05/07 at 22:11:22
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Yes. And even if Black can equalise after 6 Nxc6, this can be a very tedious variation for him/her to play.
  
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #16 - 04/05/07 at 20:36:45
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While this is true in itself, it is not certain at all if Black can equalize after 6.Nxc6 (iso 6.Ndb5) bxc6 7.e5 Nd5 8.Ne4. So if the the guys using the Four Knights move order are really that clever, is still an open question.
  

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zoo
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #15 - 04/05/07 at 14:04:45
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7. Nd5 is certainly a good option in the Sveshnikov, but you can't get it against the clever guys who play 2... or 3... e6 and just "allow" the sveshnikov after e.g. 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. d4 cd 5. Nxd4 Nf6 6. Nbd5 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5. Playing an early ...e6 is a nice tradeoff for Black if he's more happy with (lesser?) 4-Knights variations than with with 2...Nc6 3. Bb5 or 2...Nc6 3. Nc3 e5. Note that 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 is also possible, but this is not exactly a "Maroczy bind", see for instance that funny Rublevsky-Bologan game. So, maybe it is useful to prepare a mainline sveshnikov variation. If you insist on something "crazy", some time ago there was a topical piece sacrifice with  10. Nd5 f5/Bg7 11. c3 Bg7/f5 12. Bd3 Be6 and only now 13. Nxb5 axb5 14. Bxb5 Bd7, is it still playable for White ? don't know much about corr. chess, but iirc Black first has to avoid some early catastrophe on the kingside, and then play a tense piece vs passed pawns game, maybe this is a good option against some of your opponents ?
  
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #14 - 02/01/07 at 17:50:00
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the Nd5 is not a bad option alright - especially for a positional player. I remember seeing Kotronias play this a couple of times in a tournament, winning very nicely in both cases.
  
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #13 - 01/28/07 at 20:51:08
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photophore wrote on 01/28/07 at 00:10:02:
Some of you wonder why i want to avoid  the Svesh'
Well ! I am a corespondence player , and you know that corr. tournament are qualificative ones
Then , it's essential to win chiefly vs a weaker player , and it's not the case when he choses a Svesh' , as it's the case for instance with a Najdorf
On the other side 3 Bb5 , and the positions that occur don't eactly suit me
I should change my mind if somebody could give me a "crazy" line in the Svesh' , but I have not yet found such a line


You might ask yourself, if crazy lines are the best way to beat weaker players. Anyway, if Black keeps on doing well in the main lines of the Svesjnikov, I predect a raise in popularity of 7.Nd5. I think it is very suitable for corr. play; the asymmetrical pawn structure offers many opportunities to outplay your opponents, especially weaker ones.
  

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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #12 - 01/28/07 at 16:10:28
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If you're trying to win vs. weaker players who use the Sveshnikov, I would try 7Nd5 or 6Nde2 (a la Dangerous Weapons).  These seem like good arenas to outplay an opponent.  6Nde2 especially caught my eye when I started looking at it more carefully: it contains both sharp/tactical play and positional/endgame type play.  Not to mention that visually it looks a bit modest, but that is misleading. 

Good Luck whatever you end up choosing...
  
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #11 - 01/28/07 at 00:10:02
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Some of you wonder why i want to avoid  the Svesh'
Well ! I am a corespondence player , and you know that corr. tournament are qualificative ones
Then , it's essential to win chiefly vs a weaker player , and it's not the case when he choses a Svesh' , as it's the case for instance with a Najdorf
On the other side 3 Bb5 , and the positions that occur don't eactly suit me
I should change my mind if somebody could give me a "crazy" line in the Svesh' , but I have not yet found such a line
  
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #10 - 01/27/07 at 11:19:45
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I have to agree with Stormcrow that 3.Bc4 (after 2...e6, in my own case) is far too prevalent online - I get it way more than any other anti-Sicilian.  I can't refute it either, but normally find I get a reasonable enough game with either 3...a6 and some Queenside expansion or more often I just play 3...d5 and then it normally goes 4.exd5 exd5 5.Bb5+ Bd7 6.Bxd7+ Nxd7 with what looks like early equality to me (but please let me know if there is a better way for Black to play this!). I thought it was just me who was afflicted by the 3.Bc4 move!  I'm glad other people see it as often as I do.  Smiley  
  
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #9 - 01/26/07 at 22:39:01
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The line 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 (e6) 3.Bc4 has arisen more frequently in my internet games than ANY other anti-sicilian OR open sicilian BY FAR, even though it is not that good of a variation.  It used to annoy me, but after the millionth time seeing it, I've gotten used to it and usually enjoy a very pleasant game (with a variety of approaches, too).  Of course I have yet to refute it outright.  If the REAL Santa Claus knocked on my door and told me I could have any chess refutation as a Christmas present, this one would be the most practical choice for me(of course I would have a long hard think about the Najdorf Poisoned Pawn).

As a player who likes the Sveshnikov quite a bit, I must admit that 3.Nc3 is my least favorite move to play against.  I actually look forward to 3.Bb5 as much as 3.d4.  Responding with 3...e5 is fairly boring.  I usually go 3...Nf6 and after 4.Bb5 either Qc7 or g6.  Actually I've been into the Kalashnikov and Lowenthal lately and then 3.Nc3 is even more annoying.  This would be my pick.  I remember seeing an interesting game between L.Domingez and T.Radjabov a while back here, and S.Polgar had a nice little intro article on it one time in Chess Life mag.
  
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #8 - 01/26/07 at 10:20:16
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I guess you're right, e6 and d5 (if needed with Nge7 included) looks excellent for black.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #7 - 01/25/07 at 13:41:06
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against 2...d6 then 3.Bc4 is not a bad option, angling for some type of Spanish game!? But with the 2...Nc6 I dont think its on maybe the immediate ...e6, ...d5
  
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Re: Which is better anti-Sveshnikov? 3 Bb5 or 3 Nc
Reply #6 - 01/23/07 at 11:33:22
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Bonsai wrote on 01/22/07 at 19:25:14:
I think I read an article by Leko on this recently (it was following some supertournament and he was being critizied for all his draws), he explained that all his draws were not his fault, at least not when white opens 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 e5 which according to him is just dead equal (without any particularly interesting options for either side). He made some further comments about how he just didn't understand what the white players were aiming for unless they were looking for a draw.

After 4.Bc4 isnt it just a bad Italian with a pawn iso bishop on c5? Though I agree that with Nc3 it isnt really much. So from this perspective may be 3.Bc4 is better.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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